Water pump replacement 1979

Maintenance advice to keep your Spider in shape.
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Pescado
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Your car is a: 1979 Fiat spider 124
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

Hey all,

Started the water pump replacement, fluid drained, parts are off, and some are even cleaned and painted. Accomplished the removal without breaking any bolts or creating any new swear words. Cleaned and sanded all mating points and getting ready to put things back in place. I have read as many threads as I can handle on replacing the water pump and gaskets but all this reading has still left me a little uncertain if a sealer should be used on the pump and heater pipe gaskets and how to re-fill the cooling water. So...I'm sure ill get some different opinions but hoping to get a majority vote on the sealer and just an fyi all mating points look good and straight... so maybe no sealer even needed? When removing the cooling water I only drained the rad, removed the lower rad hose, removed the "T" and caught what poured out when removing the pump...never touched the engine block just mentioning this incase it effects the re-fill procedure. Thanks for any help...cheers!

Some pictures for fun.



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18Fiatsandcounting
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Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

Pescado wrote:...if a sealer should be used on the pump and heater pipe gaskets and how to re-fill the cooling water. So...I'm sure ill get some different opinions but hoping to get a majority vote on the sealer and just an fyi all mating points look good and straight... so maybe no sealer even needed?
Opinions vary on using sealant on the water pump and heater pipe gaskets, but I personally don't use any. If the mating surfaces are clean and straight, you shouldn't need any. A few tips:

1. I'd drain the block if you can. There is a drain valve under the exhaust manifold on the side of the block, although sometimes this is just a plug. Loosen the drain if you can (or remove the plug), and flush out the block with water.

2. When first testing for leaks, I just use water until I'm sure there are no leaks, and when you've verified that it's OK, then refill with the 50/50 mix of coolant and water. Saves money on replacing coolant if there is a leak.

3. Technically, distilled water is better than tap water, but this depends how pure your water is. I usually just use tap water, but I also drain and refill the coolant every few years. If you have water with a lot of mineral content, I'd use distilled water.

4. When filling, "burping" the system is rather critical. Because of the design of the cooling system, air pockets can be left in the system and cause problems with cooling. In theory, the radiator should "self-refill" when the engine cools back down, through the coolant in the overflow tank. But, this doesn't always work. Anyway, fill it back up, warm up the engine a few times, then check the level. Refill as needed.

5. Speaking of the overflow tank, I also remove it and clean, as it's a common place for gunk to build up. Make sure it is at least half to two-thirds full when you're all done.

6. Don't forget to open the heater core valve when draining. Gunk also tends to build up in this.

7. If the cooling system hasn't been flushed in a long time, I drain and refill the system after a few hundred miles. The more gunk you can remove from the system, the better. Sometimes it takes multiple drain/refills for a really dirty engine.

8. I just use the regular "green" coolant. Some people use the more modern orange or red coolants, but Fiat engines weren't designed for this. I use Prestone as some of the cheaper alternatives seem to build up more crap over time.

-Bryan
Nut124
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Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Nut124 »

I just filled mine yesterday after come cam work. I jack up the front of the car at the crossmember as high as my jack goes, then fill and keep squeezing the hoses to burb air out. Ran the car afterwards and cooling was perfect.

I have never opened the drain in the block. But then again, I have not seen any evidence of gunk in the system, no reason to flush. I like to do only what is needed, lazy.

If you fill with water for testing, make sure you get it all out as not to freeze and break your engine.

I do use a thin layer of Permatex #2 gasket sealant on both sides of all paper gaskets. Never had one leak.

I use the Prestone green 50/50 as well. There are stories of the green not being compatible with the orange so I do not mix.
Spider951
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Your car is a: 1981 Spider 2000
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Spider951 »

+1 on the "burping" to get the air out of the loop. IIRC, keep the reserve tank at least 3/4 full during the burping/ filling procedure. The last time I drained the coolant and flushed I forgot to keep a close eye on that reserve tank level and had trouble getting the baby burped, probably because the reserve tank level was dropping too low, thereby re-introducing air back into the system. It's mentioned in one of the manuals but not emphasized. Also, +1 on cleaning the surfaces (block and water pump) helps - get all of the old gasket, gunk, etc off before mating them up.
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

Thanks guys...I'll try without sealers first, if leaks appear I'll try again with sealer...sounds reasonable. Hopefully no other issues arise from what should be a pretty easy install.
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

Hey guys....just doing some planning and clean up of old bolts which brought to my attention that perhaps these bolts will need some type of sealant when i put them back in with the waterpump...?
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

also bolts that attach the pully to the waterpump...antiseize I presume.
18Fiatsandcounting
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

I don't use any sealant. I know there is disagreement on this, but none of the blocks that I have ever come across had the four bolt holes exposed to the coolant. They were all blind. So, while the sealant might protect against the bolt seizing to the block over time, it's not preventing coolant leakage. Unless your engine is different of course! :D

That being said, some vendors sell copper washers for these four water pump bolts, with the goal being to seal the head end of the bolt. But, as I noted above, I'm not sure what the point is unless your water pump gasket is leaking through to the bolt holes. Which would seem to me to be a bigger problem.

On the three water pump pulley bolts, I don't use anything. Anti-sieze would do no harm, nor would it do harm on the four water pump bolts. But not strictly necessary (my view of course).

-Bryan
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

So to my surprise the lower bolt on the pump does pass through the block wall and is exposed to coolant…I only confirmed this one as the other bolts got tough to turn in…anyways put some sealer on all four just in case.
18Fiatsandcounting
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Your car is a: 1969 and 1971 124 spiders
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by 18Fiatsandcounting »

That's odd, but I've certainly been wrong before. So there must be blocks that have at least one water pump bolt that goes all the way through... Hmmm... Well, I think you're wise to use sealant in that case.

It just seems a weird engineering design, as I would think that (cast iron block)+(steel bolt)+(hot coolant)+(time)=Issues.

-Bryan
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

Well broke my first bolt....bought a small torque wrench to get down to the 14lb spec and snapped the driver side bolt for the water pump...one step forward two steps back.
redcars
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by redcars »

If those are 6mm bolts the specs are more likely 6 or 7 ft-lb. You can download a ft-lb chart that will give you the maximum toque for bolts. The maximum is not necessarily want you want to toque to, but if your book tells you more you know it's wrong.
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Pescado
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Your car is a: 1979 Fiat spider 124
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

Well took the pump off again and managed to get the broken bolt out using some vise grips. Since I had the pump out I checked to see if any other bolts pass through the block and indeed the top bolt also passes through. Now here’s where things get interesting…while poking my finger around the inside of the block I felt something that seemed lose and with the help of a magnet I pulled out the below….WTH?

[img][img]https://i.imgur.com/g2lf9aa.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]https://i.imgur.com/VoQseGj.jpg[/img][/img]
Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

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Pescado
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Re: Water pump replacement 1979

Post by Pescado »

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