Anemic '77 in California

[124Fan]

My 1.8 liter California '77 Spider is a turd.

There, I said it. My '72 with mildy hot-rodded 1608 (high comp pistons, bigger cams, bigger carb) was a rocket ship in comparison.

I'm not opposed to swapping parts around every 2 years to get it through smog, but I'd sure like to open this motor up a big so that freeway merges are a little less "exciting".

Air pump, EGR, low compression, small carb, tons of vacuum stuff, etc.

Does this engine even have enough cam and compression to warrant a larger carb?

I find that advancing the timing from 0 BTDC to 10 BTDC makes a noticeable difference and it's cheap/easy to put back when it's time.

Thanks,
Sonny

[vandor]

Things you could do that would still keep it smog legal: 4-2-1 exhaust from a '74 with EGR, higher compression pistons, and later style electronic ignition.
You could get a larger carb and swap the old one back on every 2 years.

[124Fan]

Other than reliablity and consistency (which is worth a lot!), is there much to be gained by going to an electronic ignition system like this one?

http://www.autoricambi.us/cgi/commerce. ... ey=IG0-001

Or should I spend the extra money and go for the Crane system like this one?

http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index. ... ts_id=2965

The Crane system increases ignition power (or says it does), but the first unit does not?

Thanks,
Sonny

[kmead]

On a car that has no modifications, none of the systems will have much if any real improvement aside from improved reliability and to some degree drivability. They will not improve performance on a standard engine (and only a small number of them will improve performance on a massaged engine) particularly if they still use the existing distributor which the Ricambi Igniter and Crane solutions so. If your existing distributor is worn out you will still have problems with it if the advance mechanisms and so on are tired or failing.

My first choice would be to find an OE electronic ignition set up. This would mean a different distributor, coil and controller (the last two are one unit) and can be found on 79 and up Spiders. You should be able to find a suitable donor at one of your local bone yards (pick a part, u pull it Aaden Bros etc) pretty cheap, reliable and easy to service. This will appear to be completely OE to any smog station.

The next would be the 90 dollar unit (its basically an Igniter solution) from Ricambi and then the Crane Optical system from Vicks. The Ricambi unit should be effectively invisible to the smog station and the Crane unit can be hidden inside the car if you wish to.

After that would be the system Mark sells for some pretty coin but it is an excellent system. I would tend to hold off on Mark's until you decide to breathe more heavily on the car. This one can be a bit more of an issue to hide but it does offer some good benefits and if you are going this far hiding your mods is not much of an issue.

My opinion, others may vary.

Karl

[So Cal Mark]

if your car is that anemic, it's got some issues. Even a stock 1800 doesn't have to be flogged hard to keep up with traffic. Have you checked to see if the secondaries on the carb are opening?

[kmead]

I agree with Mark, its not the points and ignition that are likely the issue with your car. In regards to the performance of your car, it will be a dog compared to your 1608 from years ago. The middle year cars were pretty strangled down to around 80 hp compared to 90 plus for some of the earlier cars.

If your car is not in tune it could explain some of the lost get up and go, so going through all of the basics would be the first thing to do. New plugs, points, air cleaner, fuel filter, dist cap, rotor and plug wires would all be things to do. Check the timing and see if there is excessive wander due to wear in the distributor. Rebuild/clean the carburetor, is it set properly with the correct jets, emulsion tubes and so on. When was the last timing belt done? Have you verified that the different elements are actually in time ie the cams are where they should be relative to the crank and so on.

What is the general condition of your car's engine? Lots of blow by, low compression, poorly adjusted valves and so on. It could be that your engine needs a real rebuild which could allow you to make all kinds of invisible improvements to the engine that won't hurt you from an emissions stand point.

Until the basics are gone through and verified, just replacing parts willy nilly will not improve the situation.

[124Fan]

You guys are right. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. The secondaries do work. It just feels slow.

I believe this car had about 80hp stock and now ~100k miles later, it's probably a bit tired. In contrast, my 1608 was a PBS build with higher comp pistons, hotter cams, 40 IDFs (in the beginning -- went to a 32/36 DFV later on), and didn't have an EGR, air pump, etc.

I have it apart right now, but once it's buttoned back up, I'll do a compression check and see what I get.

Karl: The '79 and up spiders have the distributor with the vacuum advance, yes? I thought those vacuum advance units were notorious for going bad?

Thanks,
Sonny

[Exit98]

Your 79 is all choked up. A 4-2-1 will help it breath a lot better. Don't know about the smog factor. As someone else suggested, one that still has an EGR hookup.

Another quick fix may be taking the belt off the air pump. Someone with more experience can chime in on this idea.

[124JOE]

when mine was doging out on me it was the addvance springs under the plate in the dizzy
i was told to use a CHEVY CURVE KIT from ant parts store
grab the smallest set of springs and install

ive had mine 18 years

[fiat218]

my 72 only tops out at 105. what the hell is with that, that cant be correct

[So Cal Mark]

that's about right with a 1608

[vandor]

> The '79 and up spiders have the distributor with the vacuum advance, yes?

Yes, it helps with fuel economy.

> I thought those vacuum advance units were notorious for going bad?

Yes, the exhaust head cooks them. Mind you, mine lasted 7 years and several crosscountry trips.
But even if it is not working, it does not affect the performance of the system, one will just lose some highway economy.