Installing Ball Joints

[ScottB]

I need to install upper and lower ball joints. In looking at them now, the 2 uppers and one lower are all bolted into place with the 3 bolts that come with the aftermarket ball joints. The one lower ball joint looks to be pressed in to the control arm with three rather large dowels, or "pins".. It has a grease nipple on it and i am thinking this may be the original way Fiat did them. Non the less, would i just drill out the 3 "pins" that hold this ball joint into the control arm to remove it?

There are also 2 bolts on the spindle, the cut off 17 mm, that go though the Caliper bracket and thought the steering arm that will not come out. I need to changeout the Caliper bracket. Once i get the spindle out is it best to have these bolts pressed out?
Thanks in advance.
Scott B

[RRoller123]

You might consider, as an alternative, replacing the control arms with the ball joints pre assembled. The usual vendors offer them. I bought mine from AR. A lot of us take this option, one gets brand new arms, and avoids a pretty difficult job (to do fully correctly) replacing just the ball joints. Price, I think anyway, is reasonable. Just a thought. many also replace just the ball joints, so either way is fine.

[ScottB]

That a smart idea RRoller. Thanks. I will take a look at AR.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

[quote="ScottB"]There are also 2 bolts on the spindle, the cut off 17 mm, that go though the Caliper bracket and thought the steering arm that will not come out. I need to changeout the Caliper bracket. Once i get the spindle out is it best to have these bolts pressed out?/quote]
Yes, RRoller's suggestion would definitely be easier. To answer your question above, there are 4 bolts that attach to the steering knuckle (the part between the upper and lower ball joints). Two bolts are short, and the two longer bolts hold the steering arm as you describe. These aren't pressed in that I'm aware of, so you should just be able to remove the nuts and they should slide out. They might be frozen with rust or the like, but they should come out fairly easily. Note that there are two metal tabs that prevent all 4 bolts from loosening by themselves.

-Bryan
PS: Original Fiat ball joints were attached with pressed in pins. If there are bolts/nuts on any ball joints, they have already been replaced at some point.

[ScottB]

Thanks Brian.
Yes it is the 2 long bold that go through the steering arm that are stuck on both sides. They seam to be rusted in there tight i guess. Good to know they are not pressed in. Hopefully once i get the spindle out i can get some penetrating oil in there and hammer them out. I take it a pickle fork is the best tool to remove the ball joints?

[dinghyguy]

Hey scott
Been there done that...
For a delaneys coffee I will tell all and loan you my ball joint tool

Cheers dinghyguy

[18Fiatsandcounting]

A couple tips:

Safety: When the ball joints are loosened, the compressed spring can pop open with quite a lot of force if the suspension is just hanging there, so make sure that the lower A-arm is supported by a jack or wooden blocks or the like. Or use a spring compressor to compress the spring so that it won't pop loose when the ball joints "release".

Sometimes tough ball joints can be broken free by striking on opposite sides of the tapered connection with two simultaneous hammer blows. Perpendicular to the axis of the joint. The theory is that this sets up a shock wave inside the metal, and the compression/expansion waves can break loose the joint. It does seem to work.

-Bryan

[bobplyler]

One thing to be aware of. Leave the nut on the ball joint when separating, otherwise things may go flying when it lets loose.

[ScottB]

Hey scott
Been there done that...
For a delaneys coffee I will tell all and loan you my ball joint tool

Cheers dinghyguy

Hey Dinghyguy

I would spring fo the coffee for sure. I actually used a clamp type ball joint remover which worked great. Did not wreak the ball joints. Unfortunately with he one original ball joint, and the bolt through the swing arm still in, i could only get an open end wrench on the ball joint nut. This would not break it even with perpetrating oil, and a bunch of heat. I had to cut it off with an angle grinder which was not bad but not much space.

I learned to leave a nut on after the first upper ball joint. Geez they let go. So i have both spindles at the local Kal Tire to try and get the caliper brackets and one ball joint stem out of the spindle. Urg.

Next time i will wait for pointers before i just right in.
And for sure i would buy the coffee and such for some education. I see you have quite the line up of car. .
Scott

[ScottB]

A couple tips:

Safety: When the ball joints are loosened, the compressed spring can pop open with quite a lot of force if the suspension is just hanging there, so make sure that the lower A-arm is supported by a jack or wooden blocks or the like. Or use a spring compressor to compress the spring so that it won't pop loose when the ball joints "release".

Sometimes tough ball joints can be broken free by striking on opposite sides of the tapered connection with two simultaneous hammer blows. Perpendicular to the axis of the joint. The theory is that this sets up a shock wave inside the metal, and the compression/expansion waves can break loose the joint. It does seem to work.

-Bryan

Hi Bryan

As i mentioned to Dinghyguy i need to wait for the replies before proceeding. lol. Thanks for the advise. I got it all torn apart, but yes after the first one i left the nuts on. Man they let go. Good thing i am a cautious guy.

I used a floor jack but was researching compression springs last night. I figure i will be working this car forever so i am going to get outfitted.

My two spindles, with the steering arms attached still, are currently at the local garage to see if they can get the steering arm bolts out of the spindles. Getting the ball joints out without being able to get the steering arms off was a pain to say the least.
Scott

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Scott, good work so far, but I have to admit to being perplexed by your stuck bolts that hold the steering arm to the steering knuckle. Maybe I'm missing something, but normally these just unscrew and pop out.

Anyways, let us know what you find and how it turns out.

-Bryan
PS: Ask Dinghyguy how his new garage is coming along.

[ScottB]

Scott, good work so far, but I have to admit to being perplexed by your stuck bolts that hold the steering arm to the steering knuckle. Maybe I'm missing something, but normally these just unscrew and pop out.

Anyways, let us know what you find and how it turns out.

-Bryan
PS: Ask Dinghyguy how his new garage is coming along.

I will ask about the garage. lol It sounds like a story.

There were 4 bolts though the spindle and dust shield. 2 short and 2 long for both sides. I suspect you know this. lol. Anyways the short ones came right out. The longs ones that also went through the steering arm did not. I got the same long ones out on each side once i removed the spindle and could get a hammer at it. When they came out the bolts had the chrome, or whatever finish it is, peeled off virtually. The same 2 on both sides will not come out. I slightly bent one trying to hammer it out. Penetrating oil soaking and a bunch of heat but no go.

At least both spindles are off with only one bolt still stuck in them each. The local garage has them and I am hoping they have them separated by tomorrow.

So a couple questions: The garage said they will likely destroy the 2 bolts though the steering arm removing them. They suggested buying M10.9 about and prefabbing new ones by grinding the head a bit. I have looked on every Fiat site i know of and cant find them. Any ideas where a guy get those? When i put the replacement ones in should i use some anti seize? They may never come off again, but who knows.

Scott

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Hmmm.... Weird.... Let me think about this some and get back to you.

-Bryan

[ScottB]

One thing to be aware of. Leave the nut on the ball joint when separating, otherwise things may go flying when it lets loose.

I just noticed you have had your 79 since new. I have had my 1980 Since new. Don't imagine there are many us out there. For me i drove it mostly in my 20s and then stuck it in a garage in my 30s until now. Just pulled it out of storage finally. It is quite a strange feeling actually as a throw back memory like a time warp. lol.

Thanks for the tip on my post. I am so happy the car is in good shape and plan on learning everything i can about keeping it in fabulous running condition.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I just noticed you have had your 79 since new. I have had my 1980 Since new. Don't imagine there are many us out there. For me i drove it mostly in my 20s and then stuck it in a garage in my 30s until now. Just pulled it out of storage finally. It is quite a strange feeling actually as a throw back memory like a time warp. lol.

I agree with you about the time warp! In my case, my '69 was purchased new by my parents, and so I literally grew up in the back seat of that car. That explains the poor condition of the vinyl, I guess. Anyway, the car became mine when I went off to college, and here we are decades later. The car has been across the U.S. a few times and has survived floods, fires (literally), and many girlfriends. I kinda think I've aged more than it has....

Meanwhile, on your steering knuckle bolt issue, I would call Midwest-Bayless and see if they have some of the long bolts. They have lots of used parts, and I would think they're likely to have these, even if not listed on their website. Or put a "wanted" post in that section of this forum. I'm sure someone has them.

-Bryan