Stiff Steering!?!?!?

[weyre]

Morning gents, I have a 1979 Fiat 124 Spider for which I've replaced almost the entire front end including the steering box.
Now, my steering was very stiff going into this exercise but I maybe wrongly assumed that the steering would absolutely be a dream after replacing....like.....eeverything. I thought maybe the tie rods needed grease but all those connections seemed sealed so that can't be it.
I guess my question is, for the 1979 Fiat 124 Spider should I expect challenging stiff steering OR, with all the parts being replaced it should be pretty smooth?

Cheers

[RRoller123]

Very stiff at slow speeds, with the cars weight on the tires, but should easily move rack to rack with the front wheels suspended.

[TX82FIAT]

Did you replace the Idler on the passenger side. Very common failure point. You can rebuild the original and refill with oil or you can convert to a greased ball bearing idler.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

My general rule of thumb: With both front wheels off the ground, you should be able to grasp the inner section of the steering wheel with one hand (not the outer rim) and easily turn it all the way from one side to the other. If you can't, something is amiss but it's not your tires. In order of likelihood: ball joints, tie rod ends or center linkage, idler/steering box, steering shaft (the part that connects to the steering wheel). Sounds like you may have replaced most of these, though.

Note that Fiat spiders aren't known for light steering, and since many people get used to modern cars which almost always have power steering, they can assume something is wrong with their Fiat.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

Did you replace the Idler on the passenger side. Very common failure point. You can rebuild the original and refill with oil or you can convert to a greased ball bearing idler.

MANY years ago, I put up here a long post on the operation, cleaning and refill of that passenger side steering box. It IS often overlooked, and would absolutely cause stiff steering. I will see if I can find it and post it, but it was a long time ago.

[RRoller123]

http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... t=steering

Here is that original post, it is long, but there is a lot of info in there that should be of use!

Pete

[weyre]

I actually replaced the entire steering solution. At this point, its a struggle to turn the wheel. I was definitely not assuming it would be like my Mercedes, but definitely not a struggle. Here's my question, should I be able to drive and turn with one firm finger? I definitely can't do that now. I need to use both hands to turn, it's not wrenching, just need to use both hands to turn.

[RRoller123]

At slow speeds, say under 10mph, yes, both hands required is normal, at higher speeds, maybe 30 and up, still might be a 2 handed process, actually I don't think I have ever driven mine one handed that I can recall....

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Are you guys are running much wider tires than stock? On both my spiders with 185/70R-13 tires, once you're above 30 mph or so, you can steer with one finger in one of the outer holes in the steering wheel spokes. Not vigorously mind you, but it works for very gentle turns and maintaining a straight direction. And both cars have had the front suspension and steering entirely rebuilt, so it's not a question of just getting sloppy with age.

If the steering is hard when the car is at speed, something is wrong. Lift both front wheels off the ground and see how the steering feels. Also, when the wheels are in the air, you should be able to turn them by grasping with both hands in the front and back, and the steering wheel should rapidly spin around. You can't turn the wheels very fast this way because the idler assembly should be damping the movement and allowing only slow turning. Keeps the steering wheel from being jerked around if one wheel happens to hit a pothole at an odd angle or the like.

-Bryan

[DieselSpider]

I actually replaced the entire steering solution. At this point, its a struggle to turn the wheel. I was definitely not assuming it would be like my Mercedes, but definitely not a struggle. Here's my question, should I be able to drive and turn with one firm finger? I definitely can't do that now. I need to use both hands to turn, it's not wrenching, just need to use both hands to turn.

That sounds about normal especially if you have wider profile tires on the car. If you replaced the idler with a new hydraulic unit you should check to verify that it was topped off with fluid before installing it. New hydraulic steering idlers should offer more resistance than old worn out ones as their entire purpose is to help prevent a rut or bump in the road from jerking the wheel in your hands and allow smoother control as they are a idler and steering damper combined into one unit.

[RRoller123]

I run wide tires as well, as well as a wider track (30mm on every wheel). It is not that you need to use both hands when up at speed, obviously in vigorous driving there is a lot of shifting, but it just gravitates to that. Feels better with both hands on the wheel. It is not really a one finger system, for which we should probably be eternally grateful.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

One thing I forgot to mention: low front tire pressure can also make cars hard to steer. I keep my tire pressures at 26 to 28 psi all around.

Oh, and now that I think about it, a bad alignment job can cause hard steering. So, for the original poster, if you replaced a lot of front end and steering parts, but the alignment wasn't done right, that's one possibility. I had an alignment done on one of my spiders years ago that wasn't right, and it was really hard to steer until I had it corrected.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

I run 31 or 32psi, but that is needed with these wide tires, otherwise it would never turn from straight. LOL. It DOES give a rough ride though.

Pete

[Nut124]

There is a reason power steering became standard equipment in cars.

Like someone suggested, jack up the front end. With the front tires off the ground, the steering should turn easily with one hand from end to end.

On the road, anything other than straight cruising pretty much requires both hands.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Any yet another thought from yours truly: Both my spiders have those "pleather" steering wheel wraps. This slightly increases the diameter of the steering wheel and makes it somewhat easier to turn. Cost = $5. Installation time = 10 minutes. Added bonus if you order in the next 10 minutes = no need to replace any parts or get under the car. Ginsu knives sold separately.

-Bryan