Starter Woes

FordPrefect · Post by **FordPrefect** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:51 pm

My car has had as long as I have had it, an issue where, once in a blue moon, the starter would not turn at all for a few attempts, but then start as if nothing was wrong.

Today, that caught up to me, so now I can't start it no matter what. The battery is great, the lights and dash all have power, but the starter does nothing. So now I gotta check it out. Hopefully it's just a loose wire, but any ideas would be appreciated.

joelbert2k · Post by **joelbert2k** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:26 pm

First question has to be "Does the solenoid click when you turn the key?"
If not then it is either a loose wire or a bad solenoid.
If it does click then it is probably a bad starter.
One other possibility that can be fixed, if you care to try, is burned contacts inside the starter. When the solenoid engages it pulls what looks like a large washer into contact with the post that the battery cable hooks to and the starter motor wiring. Sometimes they become pitted and burned so they don't make good contact, which makes more burns and pits eventually rendering it inoperable. At least that's the way some cars work, I haven't taken a Fiat starter apart so I can't swear to this.

Joel

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:58 am

you really need a voltmeter to troubleshoot this problem. Check the voltage at the small wire on the solenoid to verify you're getting enough voltage from the ign switch

FordPrefect · Post by **FordPrefect** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:34 pm

Fortunately, the first thing I checked was the ignition switch, for that is where the problem was. Some gremlin unplugged a few wires under there, so all I needed to do was find a diagram from mirafiori, shove the wires back and it fired up no sweat.

Thanks for listening.

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:10 pm

brad's site is down, or i'd direct you there to download a wiring diagram. what year do you need? someone might have one they can email to you.

FordPrefect · Post by **FordPrefect** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:48 pm

I got one from mirafiori.com, thanks. Photos and everything.

HAWKER · Post by **HAWKER** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:52 pm

I have just removed a starter from my 1982 Pinnfarina after several intermittent failure to get it to react to the ignition switch. As was mentioned here in "Starter Woes" sometime it worked fine then other times dead as a door nail. All the standard items were checked befor I removed the starter. Battery, voltage to the solenoidwith the ignition switch, voltage from the battery direct line to starter, all good. The two brown wires that trail off the battery direct line to somewhere are still a mystery to me and I fear they might play into this delima. So, I figured the solenoid or starter or both. Never any of the clicking that I would have like to have heard on the failed attempts. I discovered new sailor language when trying to remove the starter bolts, especially the one buried at the 10 oclock position as the look at it rear. I have heard as to its difficulty and I can confirm all possible claims of frustration. The shop manual implies that it should be removed before and engine removal. I think I would yank the engine next time to get to it. Anyway, it is now out and believe it or not, I took it to a local auto parts place that advertised a free test bench for starters; They hooked it up and it spum up on cue however the gentleman said that it did seem weak. I am left confused by the fact that it even spun at all and in the car it was dead!
I would like to build up an extended bolt head for the guys and gals on the forum so that the starter removal is not such a rediculous task. My knuckes are still bleeding. I am in the mode of ordering a rebuilt from Vicks or International and can you imagine the frustration of getting it back in and it still be dead!
Hawker/Bartlett, IL

mdrburchette · Post by **mdrburchette** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:08 pm

Hawker, those of us that have replaced a starter know the frustration you are referring to. But, when, and only when you actually accomplish a starter replacement on your Spider, will you be eligible for the Fiat mechanics Hall of Fame.

I didn't have as much of a problem as some because my hands are small, but if you use long extensions and a swivel socket, those bolts on the top part of the bellhousing are not that bad. I have found on my early car, it's easier to remove the fuel pump and pull the starter from the top vs dropping it from the bottom. I think the hardest part of the replacement was getting the wires back on the starter.

manoa matt · Post by **manoa matt** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:13 pm

Hawker,

While you got it out and before you place that order, I'd take it to someone who rebuilds starters and alternators. A few weeks ago the starter went out on my Jeep. I took it to the local auto parts store and it spun up, but it was weak and the machine said it passed. Then I took it to a rebuilder who tested it and failed it. He rebuilt it in one hour with a guarantee and it was cheaper than buying a new starter.

kilrwail · Post by **kilrwail** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:14 pm

The swivel socket and lots of patience are the key, even with my big mitts.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:37 pm

you should consider one of the new small, lightweight gear reduction starters. They weigh half of what the oem starter weighs and are a snap to install. You still need a long extension and a swivel socket for the bolts.
I've got those brand new gear reduction starters in stock

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