Alignment question

[ga.spyder]

After a year of collecting parts ,my front end rebuild is going to happen next week.I have worked out a deal with a excellent mech. in my area.He works on a lot of Jags,Porsches, etc..and has owned a couple Fiats.Well qualified.I am taking a day off and helping him,he is charging just his labor.I get use of his lift ,tools,and knowledge.
I am concerned with the alignment.It is spot on now.I have read and copied all the instructions for this undertaking.When the spacers(shims) are removed,and then put back is there any hope that the alignment will remain correct? I am changing the upper control arms,the lowers will be rebuilt.Are the spacers just basic washers,or am I going to have to find a specialty part?There is a pretty competent front end guy here,I am sure he can set the toe(all new tierods,and center link).If the camber/caster has to be reset,I will have to find these spacers.My mech. said he can usually set it back as good as an alignment shop,I guess we'll see!
Craig

[baltobernie]

Alignment should not change much if everything is reassembled as before. There's probably some settling due to bushing wear, but you should be close enough to drive safely to a front-end shop following your renovation, which I recommend.

The only gotcha I can think of is that you might ruin the outer tie rod ends when driving them off the spindles. So if you must replace them due to split rubber, put a ring of masking tape on the adjusting sleeve at the point where the damaged tie rod end was set. So when you unscrew it to replace, you can thread the new one back to the peviously-set toe point. If you've not purchased a left and a right outer tie rod end in anticipation of this project, you can always put the buggered one back on, drive home, and replace it at your house without special tools.

If you're replacing other steering components (inners, center link, etc.) you can do the masking tape trick on them, too.

Who knows what was used as shims on your car previously, but most places like to use "U" shaped shims instead of "washers", because they're easier to remove for the next alignment.

Give those wheel bearings a good wiggle, too, while you're up there. No sense wasting an alignment on mis-adjusted bearings. (Those bearings don't use castle nuts and cotter pins, either. A special, one-time Fiat nut is required. Again, different for left and right.)

You're way ahead of most of us, with the services of a real mechanic! Follow his lead; the Spider front-end is textbook.

[ga.spyder]

Thanks,Bernie,
Its gonna be all new parts..tie rods, sleeves,centerlink,bolts,bushings,etc..I even have right and left nuts!! The only part going back on the car is the lower control arms.I figured that it must be a ''u '' shaped spacer.Looking at my car,I dont think there are any spacers installed at all.Thanks for the info.
Craig

[pope]

Craig, If your putting on new steering rods and sleeves, you going to need a good alignment. You cant change all those part and expect to be close. Those guys might be able to do a good alignment, I dont know. The good shops use lasers to align the wheels, and they have the shims also, little worried about a place that doesnt have a good supply of shims. Makes me think they dont do enought of them.
Your gonna love the ride when its done. Its gonna be tight.

[racydave]

Craig, make sure to put your Teddy in the pass seat so the ride height is correct!

[pope]

HAHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHAAAA! Good one

[ga.spyder]

Teddy...what Teddy ?? There are a couple places in the county(pop. 20,000) that do alignments.Most dont know toe-in from toe-jam.There is a guy I trust who honesty told me he has never done a Fiat,but doesnt see any reason he cant.He may have a shim supply ,I dont know.He has an old school shop,where you pull over the pit.This is one of the reasons I have put this off so long.The ball joints,tie rods,bearings,etc.. are fine.Every bushing is just short of metal to metal though,and desperately need replacing.If I cant get it aligned to my satisfaction,I can trailer it to Atlanta where there are some shops that are used to working on Fiats.Wish me luck!
Craig

[kristoj]

When I did my front-end rebuild last year, I took it to a local Goodyear Gemini shop that does laser alingments. I am guessing that they had never done a Fiat before, but there is nothing particularly exotic about our steering/suspension set-up. They were able to align it within the specs I provided (from the Fiat Service Manual), and gave me a printout afterward that showed where all of the various specs ended up (toe, camber, caster, etc). I don't remember exactly how much it cost, but I think it was around $100.

[racydave]

It should not be a problem for any good tech! In fact the machine we used at the dealership, had the Fiat specs! Denise told me you would'nt go anywhere without your teddy! She did mean a bear?

[mdrburchette]

Hmmm, now I'd like to see Craig in a teddy...or maybe not. Luv ya Craig!

[manoa matt]

I just had one done two weeks ago after I did the frame rail fix and crossmember replacement. I've gone to the same guy for about 3 years now. We talk shop/cars and I point out the intracies of the spider while he wrenches on the car. His laser equipment has the fiat specs. Both times I've gone there, he always comments how drastic the spider alignment specs change from an empty car to one with a driver sitting in it. With the laser rack you can actually watch how much it changes.

I've told him about the two passengers plus the 130 pounds of weight issue with alignments. He remembers the days of sandbags and weights where that was the norm for some cars. He even had a nifty system that hooked on to the frame and pulled the car down to the rack to simulate the weight without actually having to put the weight in the car.

His view is that you should get the car to specs with whatever the normal expected driving weight is. Since I'm the only one in the car 98 percent of the time, that's what it is set to. I don't expect to have two occupants AND 130 pounds of weight. Even if that scenerio does happen I'm sure I won't be driving around for more than a few miles, or enough to cause abnormal tire wear.

[SpiderHead]

I just had one done two weeks ago after I did the frame rail fix and crossmember replacement. I've gone to the same guy for about 3 years now. We talk shop/cars and I point out the intracies of the spider while he wrenches on the car. His laser equipment has the fiat specs. Both times I've gone there, he always comments how drastic the spider alignment specs change from an empty car to one with a driver sitting in it. With the laser rack you can actually watch how much it changes.

I've told him about the two passengers plus the 130 pounds of weight issue with alignments. He remembers the days of sandbags and weights where that was the norm for some cars. He even had a nifty system that hooked on to the frame and pulled the car down to the rack to simulate the weight without actually having to put the weight in the car.

His view is that you should get the car to specs with whatever the normal expected driving weight is. Since I'm the only one in the car 98 percent of the time, that's what it is set to. I don't expect to have two occupants AND 130 pounds of weight. Even if that scenerio does happen I'm sure I won't be driving around for more than a few miles, or enough to cause abnormal tire wear.

Fantastic bit there Matt!

When getting mine aligned, I sat in the drivers seat while the car was on the lift. He had asked me to not smoke, and not have a beer while I was on the ramp.. lol... silly fella. like he would turn me in when he was breaking every single OSHA rule on the planet! hehehe.

I was in the air for a full 20 minutes, and those beers were cold. I did however just have the one smoke before he "busted me".. lol

-Ryan

[ga.spyder]

I want to take mine to Matt's guy.When is that damned bridge gonna be done? I spoke with the local front end guy today,I dont think he ill have any problem.I also got a closer look ,and there are no spacers evident on either side of my car.Not really sure if that is good or bad We have been snowed in for a couple days,and below 0 wind chills.Supposed to be in the 60's by Sun.,car is going for the front end rebuil Mon. morning.

[pope]

LOL, I think that bridge is in that Stimulus package. Every thing else is in it. There might even have money for you alignment.

[So Cal Mark]

no shims on either side can be a bad thing. Your alignment guy may find that the upper towers are collapsing inwards