Technically how to install VW golf signal lights?

[Topless]

I've been reading up on solutions for my bumperless '79 and am thinking the VW solution is the simplest way to go as I'd rather not expand my bumper bracket holes in case I want to install bumpers later on.

But I wonder what's involved once I get these lights. How do they attach to the body? Is wiring them in fairly simple?

[SteinOnkel]

My Derby uses the same turn signals as a mk1 rabbit. I think.

It's a simple two wire unit. They get screwed into place inside the bumper though.

[Topless]

They get screwed into place inside the bumper

Do you pre-drill and screw "through" the bumper?
If I ever take these out and put a proper bumper on, could tiny screw holes be patched with some JB weld?
At least I'm glad there's no welding required (which I don't know how to do).
Planning my attack!

[SteinOnkel]

No, on the VW the bumper has receptacles for the turn signals.

[TheBender]

Not sure if I got the exact correct model of light, but I had to grind down the back of the light case a little. One side wedges into place and the other side I put a few screws into the case so it would be pinched into place. I also added a metal wedge under the light case as there is a gap down there. I only used the case and didn’t get an entire light. I hooked up an LED light that I’ll be mounting next.

[Topless]

Finally getting around to doing this. Oh, and I bought a welder and am going to learn how to use it. But for now, my VW MK 3 turn signals arrived and they're a little too wide (and too short vertically) to "perfectly fit" the square holes on the front of my bumperless '79 Spider as I had heard. But mostly, being too wide, I can't get them flush without grinding some metal off my Spider body. Which I'll do if I have to but it sounds painful for her :0 also Currently the sheet metal has a little curl around the holes, I'm guessing for rigidity, which would be sacrificed with a grind. Not sure if these will do the trick.

Also they're plastic with not a lot of rim to attach them to much... Mind you, this is my first time doing something like this but I'm wondering if there's another light that actually fits the hole and would either clamp on to the sheet metal body or be weldable in place... O wait it looks like some folks custom make a sort of bracket for turn signals, and then affix these to the front somehow...

[SteinOnkel]

Send me the measurements of the holes and I'll go out and measure the turn signals on my Derby. They are not the easiest to obtain, but they can be bought. And they are metal, not plastic.

I've also got a Fox, that one has similar turn signals, but bigger.

[Topless]

I decided to stop whining about my turn signals and figure out how to fix it. I know nothing about cars and bought the Fiat in part to force myself to change that. I've also recently enrolled in an engine class at my local community college's auto tech program and am halfway through my first semester. Everyone else is a teenager just out of high school, and I'm the 39 year old balding guy with a Fiat.

So it's my turn to share my solution for bumperless front turn signals. I decided to build a bracket that fastens to the front bolts on either side of the radiator grille, as others have done. I had already ordered the VW Golf signals to fit in the square holes. I noticed the top of the hole was pretty much horizontal to the upper bolt, although the hole itself slants forward, so the plan was to just extend a right angle steel bracket to which the plastic ABS fixture will be fastened. Here's a preview of the finished product



I had previously decided on the VW Golf option since I thought it would not require me to weld, which I was afraid to do. But a few months ago I purchased a Hobart Handler 140 MIG welder and made myself learn how to weld with flux core wire by building an AC cage. To start the brackets I took a 3.5" wide scrap piece of 1/8" steel left over from my AC cage project and cut it in half lengthwise on my Ryobi table saw using a "general metal cutting" blade that looks like a giant grinder abrasive wheel. I'm not sure how long the metal pieces are, I just measured the distance from the base of the "radiator" bolt to the middle of the square hole was about as long as from my thumb to pinky stretched out. So I found a scrap piece that was at least this long plus a couple inches. I then cut the smaller length of steel off another piece to the same width.

Next I welded it together. I'm a beginning welder and just have flux core wire which saves me the fuss of gas tanks for now. I sanded off the metal at the joint to shiny metal and looked up online how to do a corner weld, which is what I was already thinking so that was a good sign that I was thinking along the right lines. I C-clamped the metal piece vertically to a roller stand I found in my woodshop, and connected the smaller piece using two tiny right angle welding magnets. I tack welded along one side and then welded the full length. Common to both flux core and newbie welding it was splattery, but better than my beginning AC cage attempts. I flipped it over and welded the inside. When installing the bracket later on, I noticed the corner was acute even though I thought I had set it up perpendicular. I wonder if this might have been since I didn't bother tack welding the inside of the corner first, or maybe I should use a square instead of just the magnets to line it up. Anyways the welds were messy so I ground them and re-welded in a couple places to make extra sure the joint was filled the entire length. I ground it down to approximately flush with the original bar so as to have a flat surface against both the car and the nut. Final product resembled a miniature breaker bar.

I had no idea what size or thread those front bolts are (and had actually ordered a thread gage from China which is still in transit four months later) but I was just reading the shop manual and noticed mostly everything accessible is 1.25 thread, and typical of my barbaric measuring approach, I noted the diameter was just smaller than the width of my pinky nail. I measured my pinky nail at about 9mm and guessed the bolts were probably M8 x 1.25. So I picked up two M8 x 1.25 nuts from the hardware store and lucked out that I guessed correctly. Next step was drill a hole in the smaller bracket end to fit over the bolt. My goal was to position the hole as close to the longer steel piece as possible, since if the bracket installed too high the signal might not align properly, and I might have to bend or probably weld a "step" down. Thanks to my engines class textbook which pointed out an 8mm bolt takes a 13mm head, I positioned my 13mm socket flush to the corner and maybe backed it off by a millimeter to find the center where to drill the hole. I used a .316" titanium bit from my Harbor Freight giant set (the drill bit labeled letter "O" seemed just right, and it was--turns out it is about 1/1000" larger than 8mm). Dry test fit and all is well.




Next I bolted the bracket to the car inside the front round hole, still loose enough to rotate, then awkwardly shoved both hands inside to align it with the plastic signal housing in place. I couldn't rotate the bracket forward enough since the inside of the car body bulges out toward the back, contacting the back corner of the smaller steel, so I just ground off the back corner (shown in the photos above) and filed it down so I didn't cut myself, and it rotated freely. Thankfully everything aligned just fine and I felt like I lucked out. I somehow found a way to get a sharpie in there and trace along the steel against the ABS for position, then removed everything. I also marked a center point for both the steel and the light and visually memorized the distance from my marker line to the actual steel, since there was maybe a sixteenth inch gap. I repositioned and marked, then drilled, holes for two #8 x 1/2" sheet metal screws to attach the light to the bracket. I used a bit that was barely larger than the screw to drill through the metal, and a smaller bit that was close to the screw diameter without the threads for the plastic. Then I screwed them together. For the second fixture I roughened both contact surfaces and applied a thin layer of black RTV to both sides before screwing them together.




Now back to test fit to the car and I lucked out again, it fits perfectly. Not counting the welding, the first bracket took me an afternoon to figure out and the second one took about two hours.



Next I need to figure out how VW puts a light bulb into its housing & how to wire these up to the car properly.

[RRoller123]

Clever! Good work.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I agree, looks nice! Just one thought: could you install a black rubber trim seal around the opening? Just for cosmetics, and assuming there is enough space between the sheet metal opening and the lens. It would look good with the white body and the orange light.

-Bryan

[Topless]

I agree, looks nice! Just one thought: could you install a black rubber trim seal around the opening? Just for cosmetics, and assuming there is enough space between the sheet metal opening and the lens. It would look good with the white body and the orange light.

-Bryan

I love this idea. I think I'll do it!

[xjware]

Thanks for the idea! I have had these sitting around for over a year because i wasn't sure how to mount them.

[Topless]

I hooked up an LED light that I’ll be mounting next.

@TheBender, what light did you use and how did you wire it up?

[TheBender]

I hooked up an LED light that I’ll be mounting next.

@TheBender, what light did you use and how did you wire it up?

I used a 3 wire led turn signal. Hooks right up to existing wires. Although it created a hyper blink so I needed to change out the flasher. Currently I simply have them tucked up in the grill. I might drill a hole and mount them or maybe mount them inside the vw housing.

[Topless]

On to the electrical part of the installation.

This shows me how a VW Mk3 turn signal goes together:
https://diy-auto-repair.wonderhowto.com ... a-0145998/
It uses a receptical that locks into the signal housing. The receptical is called "Big Bumper indicator bulb socket turn signal" on ebay, runs $65 for an aftermarket pair (I don't have a part number). Looks like this plugs into the VW wiring, so I guess I'd have to wire in a matching plug receptical as well.

The VW socket is fitted with a clear 1157 bulb. My '79 Spider shop manual calls for a 1034 front turn signal bulb. But the Sylvania application guide specifies a 1156. Al Gore's amazing internet informs me the difference between a 1156 and VW's 1157 is "the 1156 bulb is simply for a single action… whereas the 1157 is a dual action bulb and can be used for two functions including brake lights as well as front signal indicators." I don't think I need dual action. And elsewhere "an 1157 automotive lamp is electrically compatible with a 1034 lamp."

So the plan is to put in a Jetta socket, fit it with a 1156 (single action) bulb, and wire it according to fiat wiring diagram, I'm thinking with 12 gauge wire. Will the plan succeed?

Further thoughts:
- Do I really need to drop $65 for a VW-specific receptical to match the MK3 housing and wire in a plug, or can I just pick up a generic receptical that would hold a 1156 bulb, and find a way to attach it to the MK3 housing?
- Tungsten vs LED?