Glue used for veneers

[vdesigner99]

Greetings all.
I am about to veneer wood to my console panels for the second time but I would appreciate your experiences on the cement(glue) used. I mainly refer to the ones with the center upper and lower like my 84 azzura. I tried this before with DAP contact cement but it didn't work out well. Mainly because the bare panels are metal. The glove and instrument consoles are wood that I made from plywood so DAP seems to work OK here. I acquired a second set of panels so I can work on theses and still be able to drive the car. I have heard of hydro-dipping but haven't seen any examples. I am after the wood finish look.
And last question, has anybody restored the original console "formic" finish. I was thinking of doing this to my sun faded ones but don't want to ruin them any further.

Victor

[dreavis]

I have not done this myself, but am thinking of doing it so if you could take and post pictures of the project, that would be great. (or youtube video if you are so inclined)

A friend who is a carpenter recommended I get the adhesive backed veneer if attempting do resurface the existing dash and console pieces to help simplify things.

If you are applying wood veneer to plywood, I'd assume a good wood glue would work.

[DieselSpider]

Contact cement on metal requires special consideration as to temperature and humidity since as the cement flashes off you can create and trap condensation under the cement causing a poor bond, rusting and blackening of the wooden veneer. I worked maintaining a woodworking mill where we veneered and put Formica or Corian laminates on the insides of exterior steel doors and we did have dehumidifiers and heat lamps that needed to be used when that type of work was done. A water based/latex cement will make matters worse since it takes longer to dry and increases the chance of rust especially if water starts to bead up while its drying. Some veneers can also react badly to the ammonia in the water based contact cements.

[lglade]

I'd also like to hear how this goes for you; I need to do the same thing on my 1984.

[76124]

I did this about 20 years ago using standard contact cement. Two coats on each side and then press and roll out the bubbles. I used rosewood vernier from a local woodworking store (The Woodworkers Store on Stone Way in Seattle for Lloyd) over 1/4 plywood. I was never a fan of the misaligned center sections and what not, so made it one piece across and a small glove box hole. The gauges are from my late 69 spider, one of the few things I could save when it was wrecked.

I applied the vernier first then stained and varnished the entire thing, both sides to keep moisture intrusion to a minimum. I did the shiftier piece as well over the metal mounting plate and again it's been there for many years with no lifting at all. I left the gear shift area mat finish as it's the landing zone for just about anything in your pockets, keys, phone, though there were no cell phones when I did this!

Pics are not great as it's in the garage right now.

20151023_203514 by Fiat Parts, on Flickr
20151023_203527 by Fiat Parts, on Flickr
20151023_203533 by Fiat Parts, on Flickr

[lglade]

Your dash looks terrific, Kraig! You've given me inspiration for my Christmas Break from work. Thanks for the wood shop referral too!

[vdesigner99]

Thanks all, excellent feedback and great pictures. I spoke with a local woodworker that used to veneer woods in Italy for a furniture company and he mentioned the glues here in the states have less bonding power due to the strict VOC regulation that some states have. Well I'm in CA so I'm worst off.
I'm getting ready to start selecting glues and wood. I will be veneering to the center metal console so I will keep you posted.



Victor

[DieselSpider]

Stay away from the water based and consider the old style HighBond that while it can't be used commercially in some areas is still allowable for consumers. For ease in alignment consider getting some heavy duty waxed paper that you can use folded in half but covering the entire area between the contact cemented pieces so you can slide them around and align them before grabbing the open edge of one layer to pull it slowly out a little bit at a time while maintaining alignment. Don't press too hard right up to where the paper is folded so you do not bind it up and you will be able to work the veneer more easily a bit a time to ensure you get it down evenly without trapped air bubbles as the paper rolls out until your done with the surface.

[DUCeditor]

I, too, used contact cement. My father-in-law, who was a cabinet maker by trade, had suggested it.

I've seen no discoloration problems develop over the twenty or so years since, but one small bubble did appear not too long after the work was done. (I put that down to my own poor craft. I'd never done anything like it before or since.) But in any case it has not worsened and has adhered well as the years of baking sun and sub zero winters have gone by.

A photo from just this past week...



-Don

[RRoller123]

Yellow glue, spread thinly and evenly. Works fine. Retired Cabinetmaker (the last 15 years). 25 years Mfg Engineer prior to that.

[kmoses]

DAP Weldwood top and trim adhesive HHR solvent type spray grade will hold it forever. This glue is great but it does have a few drawbacks:
1) it is meant to be sprayed using a cheap pot type gun (50 psi) spray gun at about 60-75 percent coverage
2) you must spray outside away from any source of ignition (people have blown up their shops spraying inside)
3) only comes in 1 gallon can
4)if the parts are positioned wrong that is where they stay, you are not getting them apart

But like I said, it will hold forever!

[vdesigner99]

Wow great feedback. Well I finally came up with a process that suits me and so far easy and durable.
I decided to use pre-glued veneers from veneersupplies.com. I bought the 10mil backed material with 3M's PSA
bonding agent. Mine was cherry. I chose this because I need to bond the same material to the instrument and glovebox dash which is wood but also to a newly made Lower and Upper console which are metal. Car is an '84 so I have the tall center dash. Instead of reusing my original dash parts I decided to use the originals as route templates. And also templates for the new steel raw panels.
I used 3/8" marine grade plywood as the base. I pre-finished with sanding sealer to aid in the bonding as well as moisture resistant. The metal ones I cleaned with alcohol and primed.



And the Lower center console panel:


The Image of the instrument panel shows before I drilled the thumb screw holes.
Also if you notice I added forward attach pins to the lower shift panel. I drill and shaped holes to accept flat head machine screw. Once the were inserted and flush to the top, I bonded them with Metal epoxy paste that dries rock hard and sand-able. The pic is before I stained and finished.

Now the finish I chose was marine spar varnish:


I thinned with paint thinner so its not so thick which can cause air bubbles and pour bumps, also speeds up the drying as the paint thinner evaporates faster. I finished with about 6 thin layers and sanded with hi grit paper. To speed up the finish i blow dried to stop varnish drooping. I allowed to air dry inside overnight and repeated the next day. My final finish was with marine gloss compound i use to gloss up my boat hull. An additional finish of "black magic compound". All with a buffing wheel on my habd drill.

So after all this I am pleased so far. As I have templates I can remake a new set once in a while.

Happy Hobbing!!

[RRoller123]

Excellent job! Looks really nice.