I'm Baaaack! Work has begun on the new V6 Spider :)

[v6spider]

I don't know if anyone remembers me but I am back after a way too long hiatus... LOL
For those who do not know me I quickly put together a 300+ horsepower Chevy 4.3L V6 powered Spider around 2002-2003. I had a lot fun with it but realized that there were way to many issues with structural rust for me to possibly keep it alive so I dismantled it and bought a new spider that I would put my newly built drive-train into. Well a lot has happened since my last post here. I split with my longtime girl friend and basically had a big life change. My business took off and I lost my garage to work in...It goes on and on...
So now here I am back again starting all over with the knowledge I learned from building the first version and rebuilding a better version - 2.0. I have a new girl in my life and we finally have a place with a garage so I can work on the spider again with the help of her two boys that are now my boys. It is now a family project.

Here are some photos of the cross-member that was redesigned and built:


Note the cross-member mounts in the opposite direction to stock as the Chevy V6 has a rear sump oil pan.
Every seam was MIG welded for strength. The rectangular tubing was added for two reasons as strengthening for the added torque of the V6 and mounting for the front mounted rack that is necessary for usage of the rear sump engine. Of the course steering was redesigned on the original version of the car. And will be re-redesigned on the new version.

Cheers!
Rob

[So Cal Mark]

welcome back Rob, we'll all enjoy watching the progress on this new car

[azygoustoyou]

Hi Rob! Keep us posted. This will be interesting.

[manoa matt]

Have you thought about strengthening the frame rails where the crossmember mounts? They are pretty weak even with a stock engine in there.

[v6spider]

Wow some of you do remember! Thank you

Mark: Good hearing from you! I see that you are moving up in this world as site admin. Bravo!
azygoustoyou & Matt: it is good to be back!

With regards to the frame rails, Matt has a good point. In the first incarnation of my car I had actually welded the top part of the motor mount pad to the frame itself! As you know if I ever wanted to replace the crossmember I had to cut the weld in order to replace the crossmember. As you can see from the photo I have corrected this problem by adding a 1/4" piece of plate steel vertically on the crossmember to support the upper part of the motor mount frame pad.

You know it wouldn't be hard to drill another hole next to the the stock upper hole for the crossmember mount and put another 12mm bolt through for added strength. So instead of 6 bolts holding the crossmember in there would be eight.
I could bolt through my added piece of plate for support.

Another option I have been toying with is fashioning an upper frame stiffener out of 1" square tubing that bolts in to the upper part of the frame. The only thing I am concerned about is clearance of the V6. If it will clear then it will surely help with cowl shake and possible frame twisting due to torque.

Suggestions?

[maytag]

Hey Rob!
I don't remember ya... but I feel like we're brothers from anuther muther already...

In '91, I started on a project to install a Buick 3.8 V6 (that I had left over from a totaled Grand National) in a '75 Spider. It never got on the road, because of life changes similar to your own: I got married, inherited an instant-family, and other things were more important. But I've always thought this would be a good swap.

I don't know enough about the Chevy as opposed to the Buick. is it odd or even fire? What kind of bore / stroke combo is that? Iron-block, I'd assume, but alu heads? What're ya gonna use for front suspension? Going coil-over?

[v6spider]

Hey Rob!
I don't remember ya... but I feel like we're brothers from anuther muther already...

In '91, I started on a project to install a Buick 3.8 V6 (that I had left over from a totaled Grand National) in a '75 Spider. It never got on the road, because of life changes similar to your own: I got married, inherited an instant-family, and other things were more important. But I've always thought this would be a good swap.

I don't know enough about the Chevy as opposed to the Buick. is it odd or even fire? What kind of bore / stroke combo is that? Iron-block, I'd assume, but alu heads? What're ya gonna use for front suspension? Going coil-over?

Maytag...nice to meet u! The 4.3L Chevy is a 90 deg even-fire engine my engine has cast iron vortec heads and full roller valve train. Bored .030 over and fitted with a cam that has 290 duration and .525" lift. It rattles and rolls like a cammed up 350 small block that it inherited it's bore and stroke from. While the Buick is a great engine I opted for the 4.3L because there are more performance parts... more Horsepower and almost anything from a small block Chevy v8 part-wise that is not specific to a V8 will fit.

The car has a custom front suspension that is part Fiat, and part Mustang II. I am using what they call a retro-fit 12-way adjustable damping coil-over made QA-1 that fits the mustang II front-end that is so popular with the hotrod crowd. The lower control arms were reinforced for the coil-overs. Also using a rack and pinion unit from a 72 ford pinto, a custom anti-roll bar and some custom made steering arms. All of which are getting redesigned for the new version. The rear is using some soon to be shortened stiffer stock coil springs from a later model spider and some kyb shocks. All the link rods are chromoly teflon. and I am converting the four link rear suspension to a 3 link design and doing away with the brake proportioning valve and opting for an adjustable one.

Of course now we are getting way ahead here... LOL

[maytag]

wOW! You're doing all the stuff I'd LOVE to do!

So, what kinda hp do you think the rear's up for? have ya considered just swapping now for a 10-bolt, or a 9"? It might save a second redesign after everything goes BANG! Plus, you get the benefit of easily found LSD units for it. ??

I'm familiar with the QA1 coil-overs. Good stuff.
So I don't have to reinvent what you've done (not that this is in the budget for me right now, but maybe someday) would it have been cheaper or less headache to use one of the "ready-to-go" mustang ii front cradle/suspension/steering setups, rather than going with all the custom stuff? In the back of any Kit-car mag you can find these in any width, in any myriad number of configurations, and for $1500-ish, you get crossmember, upper/lower a-arms, coil-overs, spindles, rotors, calipers, rank-n-pinion, etc etc.
just a thought. Not sure how much you've got into yours?

Now you see why I can't tackle something right now.... I have a tendency to want to EVERYTHING, and it never gets done.

[So Cal Mark]

Rob
I seem to remember way back when you were disassembling the car for upgrades you wrote that you were building a tube frame for the Spider to sit on.

[v6spider]

Maytag:

I thought about getting one of those pre-built front-ends it definitely would be the ultimate tried and true setup. However, I am cheap and not afraid to fabricate my own stuff. My front-end is a few hundred dollars which is about a third of what one would pay for one of those. Sure would end a lot of headaches though! LOL
As for the rear-end it is a modified limited slip unit out of an rx7 GSL. 3:90 gear ratio, rear disc brakes and a common 4 on 4.5 inch bolt pattern. BTW I modified the front-end to take the front discs from the RX7 GSL as well. They are about a half inch bigger in diameter and I could feel the difference right away after I added them. Definately a worth while mod. I had to have some machine work done in order to pull it off. But it was worth it for sure!

Mark: I seen some posts by a guy named halg on the forum who did just that. Used computer aided design as well. Very nicely built car but only the outer FIAT body shell remained. I don't want to reinvent the wheel only reinforce where necessary.I want it to be a sleeper. I am also going to avoid having a scoop like the last car as well. The car I have now is very solid both body and frame-wise I feel pretty confident that it will hold up. I will be doing some bracing just haven't got to that part yet. I might add to my auto power roll bar and add a brace that runs from the existing vertical part of the bar to the pillar where the hinges mount to. I just don't want it be too heavy. Kinda defeats the purpose. The strengthening I will do will be very well thought through. Not like last time where the car was just too rusted out.

BTW gents the tranny I will be using will be a borg-warner t5 World Class out of a v8 camaro/firebird circa 1988-1993...

[baltobernie]

Wow, great project!

If the Chevy is aluminum, it might weigh about the same as the Fiat TC? That would be cool. May I ask why you didn't go with a 60° engine? My Ford 3.8 V6 was a 302" with the rear two cylinders chopped off. And with a balance shaft ... not too smooth

Is the new engine short enough to enable a shock tower brace? That would be neat, with the extra torque and presumably bigger tires, etc.

[v6spider]

baltobernie, Nice to meet you!

Chevy makes an over-the-counter bow-tie all-aluminum block 4.3l V6, but again cost is a factor here. The factory 4.3 v6 is only 75lbs more in weight than the TC. I originally thought about the 60 Deg v6 but the power-to-weight ratio of the 4.3 is way better more torque and everything. Plus its design is based on the tried and true small block v8. The v6 60 has an inherently weak bottom end as well. My engine puts out over 300 hp with no turbo or supercharger. All done with intake cam and headers. The engine also is shorter height wise than the Fiat TC so I believe a brace will clear.

The tires are p225/50/r15's in the rear and p205/50/r15's in front.

Just to get you up to speed I have already built and drove a version of this car. It was quickly and crudely put together and full of rust. I learned from that model and now I am building a newer better version - 2.0 .

Cheers!
Rob

[brad131a4]

Well hot damn it's about time you showed back up. How's the car doing you still using that 74 we picked up. I still have mine but I found out that it has a few issues that I need to attend to. I bought another spider with a better body and I'm going to rebuild and turbo the motor I got out of the 74 to go into that one. Just up that way a couple of weeks ago at the Sun Mountain Lodge. My wife had never been over the North Cascade Loop. We started in Cle Elum, The parents live there, and stayed the night at the lodge then finished up the next day. Had the Mini on this trip and wowhoo the wife wanted to kill me after some of those corners. I'll have to get up there sometime and check out the 2.0 spider.

[v6spider]

Well hot damn it's about time you showed back up. How's the car doing you still using that 74 we picked up. I still have mine but I found out that it has a few issues that I need to attend to. I bought another spider with a better body and I'm going to rebuild and turbo the motor I got out of the 74 to go into that one. Just up that way a couple of weeks ago at the Sun Mountain Lodge. My wife had never been over the North Cascade Loop. We started in Cle Elum, The parents live there, and stayed the night at the lodge then finished up the next day. Had the Mini on this trip and wowhoo the wife wanted to kill me after some of those corners. I'll have to get up there sometime and check out the 2.0 spider.

Brad! Your not lost your found! LOL Sorry to hear about your spider woes... BTW the one we picked up was 72' my first one was a 74'. I tried calling you a while back, but the number you gave me originally has changed. Yes I am finally in a position to work on the spider again. I moved into a place with a garage and I am getting started on it. Just pressure washed it today after roughing in the steering so I could roll it outside. Now I am gutting the whole car as much as I can for preparation to go on a rotisserie.

Sounds like you had a great trip down the cascade loop. I love that stretch of road and a mini is perfect for it. I had my first spider on it and it was a blast. Can't wait to try the new one! My number hasn't changed since the last time we spoke give me a call when you have a moment. If you don't have my number email or PM me.

Talk to you soon!
Rob

[basarabam]

Do you already have a rotary table? I have been designing one specifically for the spider since it would be a lot cheaper than buying one. I have seen a few cheap-o that have to be jacked on both ends, I am making mine with 4-1 ton winches on each corner and a motorized turn table.

Just curious what others are using. I got my materials to start piecing it together this weekend and tack weld some of the pieces. Still waiting for my pillow bearings to get here that I ordered.