engine rebuild

[fiat218]

i have a 1608

i want it rebuild so it can compliment with my idf 40's
what do i need.i want a so called mild build or a tad over mild, not racing
what shall i get
THANKS

[narfire]

Hi Jim... some fun time lay ahead.
Ok what kind of loot are you prepared to live with. My limited experience with rebuilding engines has shown me that the head and cams that are dial(degreed) in properly make the biggest gain. Bolt on headers. Re build the engine with all the parts balanced, flywheel lightened. More loot available then look into oversized pistons etc. No end to what $$$ can buy for the engine. (Read 3-5 g's)
Chris

[So Cal Mark]

the two most important questions are what is the budget and how will the car be used?

[fiat218]

in my head i figured 6 grand would be my dollar amount
car use as street,quick.snappy, and tear up the streets now and then, and of course i do expect a couple tickets
id be a fool to say i would not get one
and it would be a show car now and then,

[fiat218]

i was just thinking of what it would cost, as i said i figure 6 grand,
now as i think of that price, what all going to cost? heads, cams, pistons, oil pump,ignition, i got the carbs and all linkages
clutch and pressure plate,throw out bearing

now i am just taking internally parts, yes i am aware of new hose's , belt, etc

so all the internal part with the head could not cost 6 grand ? could it

i really don''t have a budget on this, i jut want it my way but in my head i need some round about figure


thanks for your input, i am just trying to figure out stuff

[narfire]

PM sent

[fiat218]

thanks nar, sounds great, the 1608 has the head on it,

[narfire]

I noticed that after I hit the send button.

[fiat218]

thanks for the info. that helped me alot

[Landhawk]

Thought I'd post my questions in this post rather than starting a new one.... My original plan was to not rebuild my engine, however I think I'm going to head down that road… I searched several older posts and did find some information.

I have a lot of questions already and the more I look into this, the more questions I have. I’ve only had a Fiat and been a member of this forum for a short time, but I’ve learned a great deal and appreciate all the information that is shared on here…. Plus I’ve found that no one in my area knows anything about Fiats, so this forum is my best place to ask questions.

First, to set my expectations, this car is not going to be a show or race car and I don't want or need to have everything perfect. I want to do as much of the rebuild myself as possible (not only to save money, but personally I get more satisfaction and enjoyment out of doing something myself or with friends rather than paying someone to do it) With this said, I know there may be somethings I won't have the tools or time to do or maybe I should pay someone to do… As far as a budget, I don’t really have one set, but I know I don’t want to spend anywhere near $5-$6K as mentioned earlier in this thread.

My plan is to completely tear down the engine and rebuild adding some performance items that give me the best bang for my buck… So, below are my questions so far, I know a lot of the answers will be based on opinions, but my goal is to take the opinions/suggestions here, combine them with mine and come up with a game plan.

Engine Block:
1.After engine tear down, what are the opinions on the tank cleaning? I want to clean the block and paint, but this seems like something I could do a very reasonable job of myself. May not be as complete and get every nook and cranny, but get the job done well. This isn’t too expensive to have done, so might be worth it. Also, I saw where people mentioned that this process can harm the aux bearing… I guess the bearing is not necessary to replace when rebuilding and maybe a PITA to replace? Don’t fully understand this, any clarification would be great.

2.Removing any piston ridge / honing – I have a feeling most of you will tell me to let a machine shop do this, but I’ve seen people who have done this themselves (non-fiat engines) with handtools like this (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-eng ... 97164.html) Like the tank cleaning, it seems like I can do a reasonable job myself if I re-use the stock pistons with new rings. It would be nice to bore the cylinders and get bigger pistons, but as far as bang for my buck I’m not sure this is a good decision because of the added cost of the pistons and machine shop work… Not totally against this option, but seems like this decision would add a lot of expense to the build and I’m not sure the increase in cost to horsepower would be worth it to me. Unless the pistons are in bad shape and need to be replaced…

3.Crankshaft – Plan to clean out passages, polish as best I can, and replace bearings. Anything else I need to worry about here? I’ve seen that people get the crank balanced, how necessary is this? I know the engine would run smoother, but enough to make a huge difference to me? Especially if I used the same pistons? Was the crank balanced when the engine was originally put together at the factory?

Cylinder Head:

1.Plan to clean, lap, replace springs, valves (thoughts on only replacing any damaged valves and reusing the old ones), seals, etc… Wondering if it would be better or should I say easier and cost effective to just buy a pre-assembled head?

2.Cams, from what I’ve read, this is a good area to upgrade as far as bang for buck. Don’t want anything super aggressive, but suggestions on slightly better than stock? Guess if I did this I wouldn’t buy a pre assembled head.

3.Shimming / Indexing – How difficult is this process? Can I buy some measuring tools and do a good job myself? I know you want it to be precise, but doesn’t seem like rocket science.

That’s all for now... Thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions. Other information that might help, this is a 1995 engine out of a 79. I do plan to add an 1800 intake that I just acquired and the 32/36 carb as well as a better exhaust header…

[surfingfreeman]

Unless you will be doing most of the labor yourself, and some of it is considered "highly skilled", i don't think you can accomplish all you want to get done within such a low budget. I just had a total engine rebuild which i will post a line item build up cost for one of these days. The other point is if you are going to go to the effort of a full rebuild why not invest the $$$ to have the peace of mind that comes with knowing a skilled mechanic did the job RIGHT the first time? Good luck, please keep us updated.
MIke

[fiat218]

when u rebuild, don't forget about the small things, as in new hose's, water pump ect. there is no way i would use any old parts, all them small things adds up very fast. motor mounts, tranny mounts, etc
i have learned that from the alfa romeo,.when i got that redone

6 grand maybe in the engine and heads, but i can asure u that there another grand in hidden parts

[manoa matt]

Compression, Cams, Carbs. In that order.

The single best thing and most bang for your buck is going to be raising the compression ratio. If you raise the compression ratio you make the engine more efficient. If you decide to bolt on bigger carbs and "wilder" cams to a stock 8:1 compression engine you are wasting money. You will see modest gains but you will not be taking full advantage of the cams and carbs unless you raise the comp ratio. It's like spending $500 and only getting $100 value/worth.

If you raise the compression ratio you can still use stock cams with bigger carbs and get wonderfull results. Look at the 1608 euro cars. Stock cams, dual 40's and increased compression resulted in 25% more HP.

[Landhawk]

Thanks, i appreciate the information. Are there pistons that increase compression without boring the cylinders? Have a link or which vendor? I thought if you increased the compression to like 10:1 you would need to beef up the valves and springs, so are you suggesting like 9:1? Thought I read that somewhere.

Compression, Cams, Carbs. In that order.

The single best thing and most bang for your buck is going to be raising the compression ratio. If you raise the compression ratio you make the engine more efficient. If you decide to bolt on bigger carbs and "wilder" cams to a stock 8:1 compression engine you are wasting money. You will see modest gains but you will not be taking full advantage of the cams and carbs unless you raise the comp ratio. It's like spending $500 and only getting $100 value/worth.

If you raise the compression ratio you can still use stock cams with bigger carbs and get wonderfull results. Look at the 1608 euro cars. Stock cams, dual 40's and increased compression resulted in 25% more HP.

[boogiedude]

6 grand is waaaaaay high. I had my engine redone last year and it came out to being about 1.8k in machining and labor, and then add on parts on top of that. I think i spent about 3kish. Give or take a couple hundred. And I had the machinist do all the work. Strip, clean, every bearing changed, pistons bored, valve seat grind, block painted, the whole deal. The only thing I did was pull/replace the engine, dial in the cams, and assemble the basic accessories(water pump, alternator, exhaust/intake, and bolt the head on to the block). I also spent a good deal more on parts than I would've needed to if i had done a more mild build. Also, prices in hawaii are notoriously inflated, even on services like machining.

So have no fear on pricing.