Hi Guys,I’m new here and have been reading quite a bit and have come up with my first few questions:
1.What’s the best bang for the buck on 1980 Fuel Injected Spider Power and or Weight reduction? I have about $2-4,000 to spend here. I do not have the skill to re-build the engine, so more “advanced” engine upgrades are out.
2.A new exhaust is a must; I like it loud Any suggestions? Anyone try the Allison’s?
Back after an emr course in Van.
I've "tweeked" my FI engine a fair amount.
I had the FI head surfaced and big valves installed and ported to a set of Ansa headers and stock fi intake. I have a set of Marks 274 cams with the adjustable cam gears and then getting the works degreed in properly. The flywheel had about 3-5 pounds machined off. If you can source an 1800 head and have that worked over that is an improvement as well. I'd be thinking that is a start without yourself tearing the whole engine down but sending the head out for the work.I changed to a 2" exhaust pipe as well.
Spend more loot.... purchase a set of oversize higher compression pistons and have the blocked bored out. Have all the rotating parts balanced properly.
I'm figuring you won't get much change back from $3500-4000 for a total work over that is still great to drive around town.
I love the improvement it has made to the engine and I still get great milage (about 30 mpg (imperial gallon))
When the snow,salt and gravel is off the road there is a chassis dyno just north of me I'll be seeing what the engine is producing.
Chris
80 FI spider
72 work in progress
2017 Golf R ( APR Stg. 1)
2018 F350 crew long box
If the engine will stay in the car then I'd suggest:
-Drill the airbox sides, and the inner fender, so it gets cooler, outside air.
-Get a 1800 head redone, possibly with big valves
-Install a 40-80 cam on the intake side. New cam is preferable.
-Install a header and a 2" exhaust system. Any decent exhaust shop could build a system.
-If you have money left over you can get adjustable camgears, so you can move the power/torque band to your liking
-An aluminum crank pulley reduces the rotating mass of the engine, most people say they can feel a difference
Last edited by vandor on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Csaba
'71 124 Spider, much modified
'17 124 Abarth, silver http://italiancarclub.com/csaba/
Co-owner of the best dang Fiat parts place in town
Csaba is talkign about adding a few good size holes to the plastic air filter box to improve air flow . My 131
had this plus most of the mods listed above with Factory FI . I feel the best bang for your buck would be
changing the ECU for the FI system . large valves would be the biggest waste of money on a stock fiat
fuel injection system ! Re placing the pulley and fly wheel to aluminum will make you think the engine
performs better based on throttle response but this will only make the engine spool up faster from low
rpm no HP or torque gains .
If your goal is best bang for your buck for better performance on a street driven 124 I would replace the exhaust
manifold with a early 4-2-1 Manifold and better flowing muffler ( don't go large exhaust 2 1/4 inch pipping ) keep stock
size pipe, Drill some holes in the Air Filter Box, Change the ECU to a Mega Squirt system which will allow you to
eliminate the air flow meter ( box that attaches to the air filter box and has a flap inside ) this is the bottle neck
of the system that causes the flow restriction . Replace the Coil to a Accel Super Coil, Spark plug wires too .
Install a Larger cam on the Intake 40/80 will work but the brand new cams on the market are crap ( copies of
copies ) the Lubes aren't true to one another ( Jeff discovered this ) I never liked the performance of these cams
personally, the lobe design is very out dated I've used regrinds that performed much better . You could go with
a 1800 head and yes that will increase your compression which you will feel a bit more bottom end but the top end will
lose as well do to the shrouding of the intake valves which restricts the flow, the 2L heads flow better but have lower
compression .
Pistons are a sticky issue for these engines if you choose some where between 2 to 4 mm dome you should be
ok on premium gas 8 mm domed pistons will be a problem with compression that is beyond a normal usable
level for a street car and racing fuel would be needed . Changing the rear end to a early model with lower ratio
would give you quicker acceleration but top out on RPM sooner and run at about 4k on the fwy at 70 .
I have read elsewhere that larger intake and exhaust valves are one of the best improvements? Actually read that more aggressive cams are really not needed over stock? Please explain.
Just got some specific questions concerning your recommendations:
1. Exhaust – who makes the best 2” exhaust and 4-2-1 manifold? This is something I can do myself so probably a first good step. I’d like something semi-racing for the right sound.
2. So NO value replacement unless the ECU is replaced first?
3. Any guide on the MegaSquirt ECU? It looks like a nightmare, but the MS web site seems to be written by-and-for someone with an engineering degree.
4. Daniel – Do you have a part # for the Accel Super Coi?
If I upgrade the engine itself, I’m probably going to have to pay someone to do that.
Assuming the ECU is in, then do I do pistons, cam, and valves right? If done, what kind of improvements can I expect? I’d like to add a bit of low end torque, without sacrificing the top end.
unless you upgrade to a programmable efi system, stay away from a 40/80 cam. You'll be really unhappy with how poorly then engine runs at low and midrange rpm. Swapping to another cast iron exhaust manifold is a waste of time and money.
With a 2l, I'd use 2 1/4 exhaust all the way to the muffler. Larger valves will help primarily above 5000rpm.
The key is to devise a plan to coordinate all of the parts so you get a combination that works together. With your car, you should be focusing on midrange torque. That will make the car a joy to drive on the street.
unless your going for a full race engine larger valves are a waste you will be very disappointed with that
mod . I think some people are pointing to a high reving engine build and i'm pointing to a more mid range so
the exhaust pipping would be different and i am trying to keep you under your budget if budget isnt a
issue and the power band is from 3k to 8k RPM go for the Larger cams valves and pipe .
If you re place the ECU with a mega squirt I would change the intake cam as well to something larger
without going over board dialing in the cam timing will make a difference on tuning the power band .
Last edited by Daniel on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have read elsewhere that larger intake and exhaust valves are one of the best improvements? Actually read that more aggressive cams are really not needed over stock? Please explain.
If you go large valves and stock cams how would this make any sense ? what is the purpose then, they both are
on intake charge so going Large Valves without the other is not a good building strategy . If your going to improve a
engine then do it the right way and go lager valves and cams or it's a pointless venture . Also if someone try's a combo
and likes it then is posts what they tried that is great but one persons experience/experiment doesn't mean that
was the best route to go for Horse Power bang for the buck . Matching the engine's components to the desired
RPM power band and peak HP is the best way to start even if you can't afford all of it at once just stick with the
plan and go in phases .
Just got some specific questions concerning your recommendations:
1. Exhaust – who makes the best 2” exhaust and 4-2-1 manifold? This is something I can do myself so probably a first good step. I’d like something semi-racing for the right sound.
2. So NO value replacement unless the ECU is replaced first?
3. Any guide on the MegaSquirt ECU? It looks like a nightmare, but the MS web site seems to be written by-and-for someone with an engineering degree.
4. Daniel – Do you have a part # for the Accel Super Coi?
If I upgrade the engine itself, I’m probably going to have to pay someone to do that.
Assuming the ECU is in, then do I do pistons, cam, and valves right? If done, what kind of improvements can I expect? I’d like to add a bit of low end torque, without sacrificing the top end.
on 4k it would be impossible to do all of the above the budget is to small just forget the larger valves here is a link to
accel super coil http://store.prestoliteperformance.com/ ... oints.html
on the website the price is high i think you can get them for around $50 best coil for that price range hands down .
" I’d like to add a bit of low end torque " Add a Street Regrind cam on the intake side, exhaust size 2'' pipe do a
pre silencer muffler and Muffler to keep the noise level at a livable level and have a deeper tone too .
If you go Pistons try to find the 2mm or 4 mm Dome and go over sized 85 mm this will ad some displacement
about 40cc's to the engine .
Would you then say that increasing intake and exhaust valve diameter and increasing compression by going to 4mm domed piston while using the stock cams is not going to gain me much?
It's worth noting that these cars have their limits. I mean, I won't get very far tweaking my old Buell motorcycles to try and make them perform like a new Yamaha Superbike racer. It's the same with your wonderful car from the early 1980's. Another way to put it is to enjoy the car for what it can do, and don't lament what it cannot perform.
So before putting money into new parts, be sure the existing ones are really set up and operating well. Do a fuel injection system overhaul, checking for air leaks, cleaning and adjusting your aux. air valve, cleaning up the electrical connections, getting your injectors refurb'ed and calibrated, adjusting valves properly, checking your ignition timing and maybe advancing it slightly. Be sure your plugs are clean and properly gapped, and/or new. Wires, too. Be sure your Air flow meter is working well, and your air filter is new.
Stuff like the above is free if you do it yourself, or really inexpensive. After that, get rid of weight: ditch the A/C system if you don't need it; go bumperless - both those changes will lighten the car a lot.
The other aspect of the riding experience is the suspension, and unless you only ride in straight lines, you will get more joy out of riding a stock Spider with a better suspension setup than a hot-rodded Spider with stock suspension (just my opinion - YMMV).
In short, get the exhaust note and flow you desire - that is part of your enjoyment. Do a good, deep checkup and tuning of your engine as it is, to make it perform the best it can. Possibly lighten the car's weight. Get good tires and look into suspension upgrades for better handling in corners. Then use some of your unused budget to book some track time and some track instruction, to take fullest advantage of the car.
Any suggestions? Anyone try the Allison’s?
said LMFAO!