1800 head

[fiat218]

would that be better on a 1608, or stick with the 1608 head

[124JOE]

the 1608 had 110 hp thats a big number for these
and theres only a few that are higher

[narfire]

I believe the 1800 head/engine is 84 mm bore and the 1608 is 80 mm.Makes me wonder what size head gasket you would choose. All heads were centered the same but It was explained to me a while back the water passages might not line up. I'd stick with the 1608 head on the 1608 block,it would fit just right and all line up. Massaging the head and adding cams with the whole lot degreed in properly I think would give you that bit extra you might be looking for. I'm putting a 34 dmsa on the 1608 engine going into the 72 project.
Chris

[fiat218]

thanks . mark told me the same, i am getting my 1608 rebuild and talking to mark thru email he will put together my head for me . and i just may have him send me the entire gasket set for the all overhaul. that way i have it right

[BEEK]

fyi, you can directly bolt a 1800 or a 2000 head on a 1608, you would use the 1608 / 1438 head geasket. BUT! the 1608 head is far superior to the 1800 or 2000 head. the 1608 head comes from the factory ported... dont trust my word, look for yourself!

[fiat218]

i believe u. mark said the same

[wmausbach]

I have two 1608 heads and they are not ported. However they do have slighty bigger valves and 36mm ports.
Wayne in Houston

[fiat218]

u have them as in rebuild already, wayne

[wmausbach]

Fiat 218,
I did not understand your comment. Let me put it this way, check the spec's and you'll find that ONLY the 1608 had intake valves that were 42.4 mm in diameter. The stock size was 41.8 mm on all previous 1438cc and the latter 1756 and 2000cc motors. If your head has the stock size it's because the 41.8 size was the only one available for rebuild and yours were rebuilt sometime. It is very rare to get a Fiat head that is 40 years old that are stock.
Not until the Abarth version was the valve size increased to 43.5 mm which is the largest that can fit on the stock seats.

The intake size was cast at 36 mm which later was matched on the 2000cc engine. I have actually measured them on stock engines and that is correct. Guy Croft's book details this in a chart. I have a collection 1438, 1756, and 2000 engines and NONE were ported from the factory. All are as cast and if there any that are ported they are from previous owners not the factory. Remember these were production engines and could not afford the extra time to port in production. This was before the days of CNC machines which made this economical on performance engines. Look at Guy Croft's video on how much work this is when done manually. Even the higher priced Alfa's or Ferrari's did not have porting as stock.

The only reason I elaborated on this is to give factual information. The 1608 was in it's original form produced the highest hp/ cc of any of the stock Fiat TC not including the Abarths.

Ciao
Wayne in Houston

[BEEK]

the information i gave is factual, i have dissasembled over 2500 fiats in my life, enough said i hope

[fiat218]

the only way to tell if it a stock head then is to measure the ports?
no numbers on the head?
i have not taking mine apart but it would be interesting to see what i have

[BEEK]

look at the intake ports, you will see rotary tool markings, its doesnt look like a full port and polish job, that one would expect from a race head. but if you compare the ports to a stock 1800/2000 head it will be obvious. the 1608/1438 head have a larger front water port opening, easily visable when comparing head gaskets. this is also the reason that a 1608/1438 head wont work on a 1800/2000, without welding up this area to a smaller opening. my personal opinion, others may be different. is to use a 1608 head on any 1438/1608 or 1592 application. on the 1592, the bore spacing will allow the use of the 1608 head without water jacket problems. again i lke the lancia efi casting for use on my 1800 / 2000 motors , i make up for the larger combustion chamber on the 1800 and even on the 2000 by using higher compression pistons.
i had to race in a stock class for a few years, we played with every combination of stock parts to make the best performing "stock" motor.

one of my favorite combinations was to use, the 2.0 block with 1800 pistons, a 1608 head welded, pre 74 cams. this was a realy potent "stock" combination. there was a bit of machining work done to lighten and deck height reduction, trying to make the most of the least. superflo dyno said 122 at the crank, using a 34dmsa "stock" carburator.

your milage may very, only use after dark, may cause cancer in californian rats.. yada yada

[wmausbach]

Beek, the radom tool markings are from the core removal process during casting. That is not "Porting" in my book.
A friend of mine has a real Abarth head off a 037 and it is "as cast".
ciao
Wayne

[BEEK]

All I can say is I have disassembled more fiat engines than probably anyone in this country, I raced fiats and was very meticulous in my notations of what I found in every one I took apart, I had to work with a sanctioning body to adapt rules, regarding fiats and heads, we went to random junkyards, pulled heads and disassembled and measured and noted. With series officials looking over my shoulders at all times,we discovered that stock 1608 heads were more than just cleaned up with a rotary tool, they had some factory porting, the "tool marks" were complete to the roof and walls as well size increases, the 1800 and 1438 heads were as cast, with maybe minor rotary tool marks to remove casting slag. I try to best offer information from my experiences. I’m not here to argue. I port heads, I know what the difference between random tool markings and ported heads look like. I am not saying that I am the end all on all subjects fiat, but having disassembled and restored many more fiats than most have ever seen, on the web, not to mention in person. I do have a vast knowledge of these cars.



thats ported, not random tool marks

[BEEK]

just to clarify, that is not a stock 1608 head, that is a ported 2.0 efi lancia casting