Firewall flex

[Mheinle]

Hello Everyone,
I just bought a brand new 1980 Fiat Spider I am working on getting to full operations. While I was looking the car over I noticed the steering column sagged a bit and wobbled pretty good vertically. After getting her home I was looking over it and found that I can wiggle the master cylinder up and down and watch the steering wheel mirror my interactions, I would say a two inches of play. I started reading about cracks in the firewall though those mostly related to the clutch cable, but I decided to go on and adventure and remove the booster servo to look for damage. After my research everything looks ok. I am not sure if the fix related to the clutch (Great example here http://fiatspider.org/f15/viewtopic.php?t=30420) would help in my situation. When everything was put together it seemed more like the flex was near the booster, not near the clutch port. If anyone has any experience with this I would love to hear your solution/advise. I don't like the way the steering wheel moved up and down down so much, I am certain there is an issue, it almost seems like there are supposed to be supports under the dash connecting to the steering to help distribute the weight of the steering column that are not there, but documentation I have reviewed does not indicate supports there.

Fortunately, the work has not been a total loss, I found the master cylinder needs to be replaced, I might do the booster too since I am in there....if I can get it all of the way out.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I haven't had any experience with this, but it sounds like your pedal box is loose. However, that would explain the booster and MC movement, but not the steering wheel. The steering wheel is attached to a crossmember that goes from the one side of the car to the other, behind the dash. Could that be broken? Or the pedal box to steering column support is missing some bolts? There should be four, two normal and two that were meant to be sheared off after assembly. Presumably so people wouldn't muck with it.

I'd take out the driver's seat, put down some thick blankets (your back will thank you), and lay down there with a flashlight. Move things around and see if you can see what the problem is.

-Bryan

[Mheinle]

The steering wheel is attached to a crossmember that goes from the one side of the car to the other, behind the dash. Could that be broken?

Hi Bryan,
Thank you for the response, I too thought the pedal box bolts that hold in the brake booster were loose but they were snug as could be. I suspected what you stated above but did not see any cross member, but I am not sure what to look for. I will jump in tonight and spend time looking up. The only thing I see the wheel/column connected to is the pedal box so the whole assembly is basically hanging from the firewall with the brake booster on the other side. Any, info or thoughts on what to look for regarding the cross member? That might be the piece I need to solve this.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Any, info or thoughts on what to look for regarding the cross member? That might be the piece I need to solve this.

This crossmember is a roughly 1" by 2" hollow metal rectangular tube that goes from the left to right side, and it's part of the structure of the car. You can likely see it in the passenger footwell, perhaps partially covered by a relay tray. On the driver side, it's partially covered by the steering column support. You'll know it when you see it. Usually matte black colored.

-Bryan

[Mheinle]

Bryan,
You hit the nail on the head. I jumped back in and was looking and pushing the wheel up to where I suspected it should be I was not seeing it. Finally I realized there are two towers of sheet metal going straight up from the apparatus the steering column is mounted to, I guess it is part of the pedal box. Welp feeling to the top of those two towers I felt jagged metal, just above it a piece that looks like a bracket but the end are jagged....That is my issue, not the firewall. From the looks I am going to have to remove the steering wheel, the pedal box which is what I think the steering wheel is connected to and pull the dash apart to get to the upper portion. I am not sure what that piece is called, I am not finding it on parts web sites.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I'm trying to remember now, but I think right behind the middle of the instrument cluster, there is a metal support that supports the bottom plate that supports the steering column. Along with that crossmember that I mentioned. It sounds like that might have broken off. A bad weld, or vibration, or ???

I would start by removing the instrument cluster and looking back there to see what is wrong. My guess is that you'll have to find someone to weld it back together, and that likely will involve removing the entire dash. I wouldn't remove the pedal box and steering column until you find out more about what is going on.

-Bryan

[Mheinle]

Hi Bryan,
It is a broken bracket. I removed the instrument cluster and can see the bolts to remove the top part of the bracket, I have no clue how to remove the bottom part (Pedal box) from the steering wheel. I suppose I could drop the whole assembly down and pull out the top portion for someone to weld back together while it is all still in the car. The more I dig into this car the more questionable repair work I am finding...Hey look the speedometer is broken at the cable, but help on with a hose clamp....lovely!

Thank you for all of the help, your advise got me looking more under the dash to find the root cause. I had originally thought it was a bracket, but could not find one.

[dinghyguy]

while you are in there, you might want to clean all the wiring connections you can find, lube the brake and clutch pedals, put LEDs in all but the alternator light and replace the normally non working clock with an oil pressure gauge.

cheers
Dinghyguy

[Mheinle]

Great advice! Is there a specific kit or just grab LED bulbs that match? The clock is DOA so oil pressure would be more useful.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I'm not aware of a kit, but it would be great if there was one. I imagine you just look for 12V automotive LEDs in the size you need, and you should be good. As Dinghyguy mentioned, don't replace the alternator charging bulb with an LED bulb. The current through an incandescent bulb is part of the alternator charging system.

-Bryan

[toyfiats]

I had the pedal box break pretty much as you described, and it sounds like you are well on your way to having it resolved. The two nuts on top can be removed once the instrument cluster is out of the way, and then you do need to remove the entire pdeal box assembly, which isn't as bad as it sounds. You can either get a replacement or just weld it all back together (I had a welder friend do it for me). Lucky for you that it's not the firewall - THAT is a major job.

[Mheinle]

I was happy the firewall was OK, I am not finding the parts online that I need so I am going to solicit a neighbor to weld it back together for me. I appreciate all of the input!