Battery, Radio etc are all on when key is removed, but off when key is in "on" Position.

[adamsmith]

Hello all,

Issue: Battery light, radio, antenna, and most electronics are live when I remove my key from the ignition. Car is only off when the key is in "on" position. As if someone swapped the position of ignition's "on" and "off" positions. Oil and gas gauge flicker and only give accurate readings when revved. Battery seems to slowly drain after a few days, may not be related to ignition switch issue.

Info:
1982 Fiat Spider
Rebuilt/ cleaned ignition switch. ( Ignition connectors, on back of switch, are soldered.)
Battery reads slightly below 12 v when car is not on, goes up by 0.5 when car is turned on.
Lights and radio seem to function properly.

My best guess is the culprit may be a diode from the alternator. I haven't been able to find another issue quite like this on the forum. Would love any ideas or suggestions. I am new to cars and especially new to this spider. Very limited knowledge about electrical, but I am looking to learn. Pardon my ignorance xD.

[RRoller123]

If it just recently started doing this, you most likely have a bad ignition switch. These cars are notorious for unreliable ignition switches! So this is not entirely a surprise, although I can't remember reading of this particular fault. There are after market replacements available from the usual vendors, Russian LADA, which are seemingly ok... and a couple of forum members rebuild the original switches, which seems to be a very successful way to go.

[spider2081]

Rebuilt/ cleaned ignition switch.

A shorted diode in the alternator would be a short on the cars battery all the time. It would not be dependent on the position of the key in the ignition switch. The alternator output is connected to the battery's positive post at the starter solenoid.

Assuming this is a new problem my guess would be an ignition switch issue.
Is the ignition switch an original Sipea ignition switch or an after market replacement Lada switch. The original Switch has the name (Sipea) stamped in the shinny face near where the key is inserted. The Lada switch has symbols similar to roman numerals identifying the key positions. The Lada switch would require some changes to the cars original wiring for it to function as the original Sipea switch.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

My vote is also an issue with the ignition switch or how it's wired. From your introduction in the other sub-forum, it sounds like the car might be fairly new for you, so was it always this way?

You mentioned that the ignition switch was rebuilt and cleaned, and if this was wired back together incorrectly, that might explain all the problems you're seeing.

I'd start with checking the wiring into the back of the ignition switch and verifying that each colored wire goes to the terminal that it's supposed to. If you don't have a wiring diagram, we can help you get one.

-Bryan

[dinghyguy]

Also note that the Lada switches perform differently than the original Sipea Fiat switches. You need to figure out which you have. there is information avail on the differences if you need it.

dinghyguy

[adamsmith]

Rebuilt/ cleaned ignition switch.

A shorted diode in the alternator would be a short on the cars battery all the time. It would not be dependent on the position of the key in the ignition switch. The alternator output is connected to the battery's positive post at the starter solenoid.

Assuming this is a new problem my guess would be an ignition switch issue.
Is the ignition switch an original Sipea ignition switch or an after market replacement Lada switch. The original Switch has the name (Sipea) stamped in the shinny face near where the key is inserted. The Lada switch has symbols similar to roman numerals identifying the key positions. The Lada switch would require some changes to the cars original wiring for it to function as the original Sipea switch.

The issue is new. It would appear to have Roman numerals, therefore a Lada switch. I will look into lada switch issues. Thank you!

[adamsmith]

My vote is also an issue with the ignition switch or how it's wired. From your introduction in the other sub-forum, it sounds like the car might be fairly new for you, so was it always this way?

You mentioned that the ignition switch was rebuilt and cleaned, and if this was wired back together incorrectly, that might explain all the problems you're seeing.

I'd start with checking the wiring into the back of the ignition switch and verifying that each colored wire goes to the terminal that it's supposed to. If you don't have a wiring diagram, we can help you get one.

-Bryan

I believe I can get my hands on a diagram. This issue is new, prior to this the switch was working normally. Thank you!

[dinghyguy]

The document at the link below might help you a bit as well, it shows and discussed the differences between Lada and Fiat switches

https://www.mirafiori.com/forum/downloa ... hp?id=3387

cheers
dinghyguy

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I believe I can get my hands on a diagram. This issue is new, prior to this the switch was working normally.

Great, and it's sounding more and more like an issue with the wiring on the switch. I'm not familiar with the Lada switch, but some switches have an "accessory" feature which allows the lights and radio and such to continue running even when the engine is turned off. So, you might have those items wired to the accessory terminal rather than to the "on" or "run" terminal like it should be.

I'm assuming the engine starts and runs with the key turned to the start and run position as normal, so those would appear to be wired correctly.

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

Don't know if this helps, but this is the way mine was wired when I got it.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

To add to RRoller's diagram, here's how those wires are connected in many spiders:

Brown: Goes to the positive terminal on the starter motor
Red: Goes to the solenoid on the starter motor (engages when switch is in "start" position to start the car)
Black: Goes to the positive output of the alternator
Pink (15): Goes to the fuse box to power various electrical stuff (wipers, lights, etc)
Blue w. various color stripes (15): For the ignition coil and any electrical items for the engine to run

There are variations by model year. In my earlier spiders, the INT is connected and does have power when the switch is in the lock (accessory) position which allows some electrical items to work even when the key is removed (such as the parking lights). Again, this varies by model year.

-Bryan

[davidbruce]

Adam, since this is a new problem I would bet the switch is the culprit. I had a new Lada switch that the electrical portion at the bottom of the switch started to separate. This made it feel like it wasn't returning to run properly from the start position. The vendor supplied me with a new electrical portion and so far so good. I'm guessing something is broken or shifted inside the switch.

[RRoller123]

Yes! Very helpful. Here is the way it supposedly is supposed to be on my '80:

[adamsmith]

Hello all,

Thank you for the resources, they have been very helpful. After prying the switch open again, I found that the metal connector to the 'blue' wire was making a physical connection, which in turn activated the radio and battery light. I slightly bent the metal connector so that it wouldn't activate while in off position. On the surface this seemed to solve all the issues. Going to take a closer look at wiring diagrams and make sure all is where it should be.