1978 Fiat 124 Restoration -- I hope

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It looks like you have 3 switches on your transmission. In the picture of the right side of the transmission, the switch in the very back is for the backup lights. The switch at the top of the rear of the center case looks to be a "gear engaged" switch, and the switch on the side of the center case is a switch for when you are in 3rd or 4th gear. The latter two are for emission control devices on the engine, and if those devices are disconnected, these wires / switches aren't doing anything. The other ends of the wires would be plugged into a connector on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel.

The backup (reverse) light switch may be the only one that you need.

-Bryan

[wajulia]

David
Thank you-- I looked at the site you suggested and the diagrams are definitely a LOT nicer than the tiny faded ones I have from the Chiltons manual.

Thank you!

[wajulia]

Brian
Thanks -- Looking at the wiring diagrams that Dave sent me to, I started coming to the conclusions that you mentioned. I am not sure how they all got cut -- if it was a GF thing, would she have gone in the trans tunnel?

Well, at least I have a chance of putting it back together!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I am not sure how they all got cut -- if it was a GF thing, would she have gone in the trans tunnel?

I doubt that it was the crazy girlfriend. Most likely someone tried to remove the engine and transmission, and whenever they came across something that impeded their progress (like a pesky wire), they just cut the offending item. In this case, wires.

-Bryan

[wajulia]

Sorry for the the large gap since my last post. I realized that I could not finish my garage and work on the car at the same time. So I stopped the car and concentrated on finishing the garage -- which is done!. I just installed a mini split so it is cooled and heated so I can work on it anytime. Today was 95deg and humid in Maryland and it was wonderful in the garage!!.

So I have most of the car top part of the car dismantled. Still have the suspension to go. But I think that will have to go before I start on the body work. I may have found the worst of it now, even though there is still a lot of paint and old bodywork still on the car.

I was curious about the wheel wells because there was evidence of a lot of bad work done. So I looked a little closer at the rear wheel well. You can see all the work done around the wheel arch below BUT -- not the worst of it.


Well -- I seem to have forgotten how to include images. If anyone can steer me towards the post that explains how I will finish my post with pictures. Strange -- If I open this in a new tab I can see the picture any help would be appreciated


So if you can see that photo, it does not look bad, but when I looked into the wheel well and peeled off all the random bits of sheet metal that were fiberglassed on, I found this.



That is looking into the rocker panel if you can't understand what you are looking at


While the other wheel well is nowhere as bad, it certainly needs attention. I looks as though I MUST take off the quarterpanels to address this issue.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Congrats on finishing the garage!

This site doesn't host photos directly. You have to upload them to another site and link to that. It looks like your photos are on Imgur, but I think you need to include the direct link and not within the [Img] brackets. I was able to see your photos by replying (and then your Imgur link is visible) and then pasting that link in another browser window.

Back to the pictures. The rust on the rear wheel arch looks pretty normal and can be fixed. However, the gaping hole in the other pictures looks more serious. Is this the rear of the front wheel well on the passenger side? Pretty common to see rust there, as that's where salt and snow and rocks and stuff get kicked up by the tires and just rust over time. Again, fixable, but ideally with old rusted metal cut out and new metal put in. Perhaps body shop work, but now we're talking $$$. Depends on how much you want to spend on the car.

-Bryan

[wajulia]

I seem to have figured out the pictures. I will post more now!


I took the rear end of the car out so I could get to the wheel wells. First picture is in the wheel well looking into the rocker panel.



The next is looking toward the back of the car -- not as intimidating


My question is one of strategy at this point. I need to get behind the quarter panel to address the inner rust. Do I try to remove the quarter panel at the factory seems. If so, how. I don't see any spot welds and it does not seem to be continuously welded?

OR

Should I just cut the quarter panel where indicated in the next photo and then weld it back on after repaired?




I realize that I may be jumping off the deep end with a car with this much rust, but I am only burning my own time at this point. So I will attack this area figuring if I can address this, I should be able to address all the other areas of concern (all four corners and the floor!)

[18Fiatsandcounting]

My body work skills are limited to grinding down rusty areas, brazing in new sheet metal behind it, followed by copious amounts of Bondo. So, I'm not a good person to give advice on your questions.

However, and you probably know this, but the rocker panel covers and the rear lower quarter panels (below the bumper) are screwed/bolted in, so you could remove those for even more access. The screws/bolts are almost always rusted to the point of breaking, but patience, lots of penetrating oil and heat sometimes gets them loosened without breaking.

-Bryan

[wajulia]

Thanks Brian
Actually -- the rockers look to have been replaced before and they are riveted in. I will look at the lower rocker pieces. I will take your advice and take those off first.

Thanks -- still looking on how to attack the quarter panel!

[wajulia]

I took the rocker panel off. It was held on with some rivets and a couple of tack welds. The original screws where under the rocker, I guess they were there as spacers of some sort. The metal behind the rockers looks good.

Looking at it more -- it seems there are two pieces of metal holding the quarter panel away from the metal behind that is badly rusted and needs to be replaced. It absolutely needs the quarter removed and these panels replaced. Still looking at the bonding area wondering how the quarter panel was originally bonded. I see the seam, but I do not see any spot welds -- nor does it seem welded along the seam. How is the quarter bonded and what is the best way to remove it?

Pictures below are beneath the rockers

I will address areas like these with a wirebrush and sandpaper -- then filler when the location demands and primer. What are thoughts about how to address spots that cannot be wirebrushed. Liquid rust modifiers? Which ones do people use. How do you use them.

[wajulia]

So it turns out the passenger side -- the side I thought was the better side, was in fact the worse side. The picture below is the passenger side inner rocker.

I found replacement panels for the "endcaps" of the inner rocker panels, both front and rear. I got them from a place in Canada called Wolfe Steel Restorations. Has anyone dealt with these guys before? I will let you all know how it goes with removal and fitment of the parts.

Until then, I will just strip parts trying to get to the bottom of the rust. Strategy -- rear Quarterpanels first, Trunk next (there does not seem to be any rust, just cleaned up and primered. Front QuarterPanels, Floor.

[wajulia]

I finished stripping the pass side rear quarter.


You can see some patches from the last paint job. They are not very good, but they are solid and rust free, so we will see if they get replaced Four areas that need to be addressed.


First the little triangle next to the door. Then the bottom front of the arch and the rear inner rocker panel. As I said before, I have bought a replacement for the inner rocker. I think I will start with the triangle near the door.

The last place is the bottom of the rear of the arch. That will also need for me to build up the inner wheel arch to close off the rear rocker panel


I took the two lower rear rockers (valence?) off. I have not looked at them to close, but I think one of them has a huge hole that has been badly repaired. I will take a look at them soon.

[wajulia]

I continued to work on sanding the paint off the car. Everyone should do this -- it really tells a story.
I know the car was originally blue -- then it was painted yellow and most recently painted red. It looks like it was brought to bare metal on the whole car prior to being painted red. I have found a few spots of the original blue, but NO yellow. There is yellow on the inside of the engine compartment and trunk.

Now the red. It does not look like there is any primer under the red? They went to the trouble of going all the way to bare metal and did not use a primer?

Below is the driver rear quarter


I knew this one had some rust spots -- but the next three pictures show the previous repairs. While I should not talk because I might not do any better (but I will try) the repairs are quite rough. The welds are not continuous and they are just layed on top of the old rusty metal. Then large amounts of bondo to hide the steps in the metal.

Front of the wheel arch


Center of the wheel arch


Rear of the wheel arch. I did not know that large patch was there. Again, it is just tacked on top of the rusty metal. I will need to cut it all out and replace it.

[wajulia]

Continuing around the car. The front driver quarter panel. I had thought that this panel had been replaced. I still think that it has. The gap at the door is much to thin and the door actually hits the quarter when you open it. I might have to take the entire quarter off and move it. BUT -- More surprises on this panel. This panel had what seemed to be original blue with primer under the blue. It might have been a used panel that was put on this car.

But there are more secrets!



There is a big patch panel near the rocker panel -- again, just tacked on top of the existing rust


Then the biggest surprise -- there must have been some sort of accident -- the light bucket has had a major repairs. This weld has visible holes in it. Most of the shape was corrected with bondo.


And the front end damage went down under the light.

[wajulia]

Now on to the Passenger front quarter panel. Not to many surprises. There must have been some type of accident, there were a number of dents in the wheel well area -- no hammer and dolly was attempted and the bondo in the wheel arch area was thick and worthy of a true sculpter. The pictures do not show the dents clearly as I could not resist taking a hammer and dolly and seeing if I could fix it. Not perfect yet, but much better than they had left it.



And another major patch panel near the rocker panel