Aye, yi, yi, Now Worse-Won't Start

[2ndwind]

'82 FI. As posted below, I've been trying to figure out my temp gauge issue.
I put the dash back in without fixing the gauge issue.
I was checking all the fuses in the fusebox closely-all good.
discovered courtesy light under dash and tried to get it working-shorted it in the process of taking it out.
found 2 red fuse holders under dash (what are they for?) replaced one blown fuse.

NOW
turning ignition key all worked normally for 1 second then I got nothing but the battery idiot light, no oil pressure idiot light. The gas gauge does not come up, brake light and seat belt lights do not come on, radio is dead, clock is not working. If I keep turning the key to starter, It will crank the starter normally but of course not start the car. Lights work (except dash lights now), fan blower works.

My experience suggests it is a fuse issue.
I have a multimeter and Brad Artigue's schematic but am not always sure where to find things. Like I cannot find/have no idea where the in-line fuse is between the starter and relay set nor the one between the ignition and relay set indicated on the schematic. Please help. I'm one phone call away from having it towed to the shop but it seems like it would be something simple.

Thanks

[rlux4]

The inline fuses you've found behind the main fuse panel are part of what you're looking for. The one on the brown wire with white stripe goes to the dual relay. It has to be good or your car won't start. On mine the fuse holder would intermittently loose a good connection at the fuse so I cut it out and put in a standard AGC type inline fuse holder. The other inline fuse on the red wire is for the cigarette lighter.
Ron

[2ndwind]

Ron,
Thanks for your suggestion. I took out the fuse holder, thoroughly cleaned it, replaced the fuse (though it was good) and put back together - no change. I got a little more frustrated and jumpered the two sides directly - no change. I put it all back properly again. Any other suggestions? I know the answer is right in front of me in that 204 cu. ft.

[rlux4]

I'd check that the power is getting through the ignition switch. Check the connector off the switch also, to make sure it's in good shape and making good contact.
With the key on check for 12V at the dual relay on the pink with black and brown with white stripe wires. The red with balck stripe wire should have 12V when the starter is engaged. The green with black stripe wire should have power whenever the engine is turning.
Ron

[2ndwind]

Thanks Ron,
Took apart and cleaned connectors behind ignition (not the soldered ones on the actual switch)
Power is constantly on the brown wire at ignition. Switches on at royal blue wire. No power at any other wire. Oddly, no change when cranking.

At dual relay, key on:
pink with black - dead
brown with white -good
heavy brown-always on

At dual relay, cranking engine:
red with black - good
green with black- good

Thanks

[jimincalif]

Do you have power at the black wire at the ignition switch connector block?

[2ndwind]

No power at the black wire ignition switch connection block.

I also checked noticed that there is NO power through any fuse in the fusebox except B - wiper motor and heater fan. Is this normal?

Thanks

[jimincalif]

Fuse 9 & 10 are fed by a black wire from the alternator, and that wire also goes to the ignition switch. Check to see if you have power on the hot side of those fuses, if not, follow back to the alternator terminal. Of course make sure you do have power at the alternator terminal, there should be a wire from it to the big lug on the starter motor.

[rlux4]

Check for 12V off the switch with key on at the pink wire, both sides of the connector. If there's no power check fuse #1, use a test light, I've seen them look fine and still not pass power.
The pink wire is to the coil, and is tied in with the pink with black going to the dual relay. Being power to the coil, it has to be hot for the car to start.
Ron

[2ndwind]

Thanks guys, I was feeling good about this until today.

I got home at 4:15 PM today and heard something clicking as I walked through the garage to the house. Lo and behold the emergency flashers were on, flashing away! I turned them off and stayed away from the car for 3 hrs. Upon questioning who in my family fixed the car, no one owned up. Not only do they not have any interest in repairing a car, they have even less talent than me. No one bumped it, toyed with it, or even remembered it was there. (ps. no kids under 12).

So late tonight I checked all the wires as suggested in the most recent posts and, of course, all wires were in order as I checked them. It started up and ran as usual (which, is not that great when "cold").

Sooo the puzzle is now even more difficult because it has "healed" itself. Zachmac's engine healing itself is peanuts compared to this! I have to admit I'm a little afraid of owning a car that chooses when to be active and when not. Kind of like one of those autobots in the movies.

To clarify a bit. I had pushed the flasher button two days ago as I was pushing every button to see what worked and what didn't. It didn't. I never pushed it again to put it into the off position. So it has been in the on position for 2 days and decided to work sometime today. I'm guessing it was later in the day as it would have run the battery down and I wouldn't have been able to start it.

In fairness to the car, today was the hottest, most humid day we've had all year. Is there a known part that is highly susceptible to healing itself under high heat and humidity?

[jimincalif]

Is your spider named "Christine"?

I still suspect either the wire from the starter to the alternator or from the alternator to the fuse box. Hazard appears to be fed from F9, it and F10 and the black ignition switch wire all get power from the alternator terminal.

[2ndwind]

Thanks Jim (and Ron),

I failed to mention another event that may or may not be related. Three weeks ago my wife was driving back from work and the car died while idling in heavy traffic. I restarted easily and she parked it in the driveway. I went to put it in the garage, all dash stuff came on normally but it would not crank. I could hear the fuel pump whirring. After several tries I pushed it into the garage.

The next day I started it by running jumper cables from my truck, one to ground the other to the red wire at the starter. the car started normally about ten times over the next week. Then it did it again. This time I was on a hill and pop started it with the clutch. It started normally at least 15 times until this recent "opposite" problem of no dash power and cranking only started.

I will check the black wire but also have to wonder if the ignition switch could be the culprit?

[jimincalif]

I suspect these are separate problems.

There are two inline connectors, one on the red wire to the solenoid and one on the brown wire from the starter lug to the ignition switch. These are behind the alternator. Open them both up and clean them (both sides), make sure they are tight, or better yet, remove them and solder the wires. I was getting intermittent no cranking and once I cleaned these connectors it got much better. I still get an occasional hesitation that I suspect is the ignition switch. I'm going to install a starter relay to reduce the current needed thru the switch.

As an aside, if the engine is not cranking, it is not drawing air, so the afm flap should not be opening and the fuel pump should not run. Your fuel pump wiring may have been modified by a prior owner. Mine does not run unless the flap opens.

[2ndwind]

Interesting event today. As mentioned, all was running as normal. I took it for a spin around the neighborhood and let it idle in the driveway while pushing and pulling on wires. I was standing on the passenger side, hood up touching nothing. The engine revved up almost imperceptibly twice in succession then quit. Again, no dash lights or gas gauge.

I got out my test light and sure enough, no power at ignition black. Went to alternator, to check black wire, power went through my test light and the fan started to run. Test light did not light from black wire to ground. I took the black wires off the terminal, they were rather dirty. Cleaned wires and terminal with sandpaper and electric spray cleaner, put back together, started right up. Hope that was that problem. I know it doesn't explain the other behavior. Thanks for being persistent.