Headlight / Wiper issue - Is it the Alternator?

[ch33kster]

Hello,

I have recently had an exciting though a little dangerous time recently in my 69 AS Spider.

I was driving one evening down a very dark country lane with my lights on averageing 50mph when the heavens opened so I put on the wipers... suddenly wipers stopped / all the lights went out, corner coming up, panic. Luckily enough I managed to slow right down and use my side indicators to pull me safely to the side of the road.

When checking the fuses the 8amp fuse had blown in no. 10 of the fuse box (alternator / regulator). I replaced the fuse and continued home turning off the lights in a split second to use the wipers and then lights back on for the remaining journey.
The battery fizzed slightly, ttelling me that it was being overcharged

I havreplaced the Regulator which wasnt working with a new one from an 850 and the battery no longer seems to be overcharging.

The head lights and wipers seem to work together fine when the car is still but at acceleration the they both stop and fuse.

The headlights are new H4 halogens. The wipers are original. I have a 1983 radio cassette with an electric aerial.

The Alternator is the original Marelli 45amp.

Do I need to upgrade from the 45amp to a 65amp? if so what would you recommend? Would i be best connecting relays to the the headlights?

Thankyou for your time,

Charles

1969 AS 1.4 Fiat 124 Spider

[pope]

I think the H4 halogen bulb is for off-road only. They draw a lot of power and you should get headlight relays for them so you are not drawing all the power through the wiring harness. Make sure the wiper motor and related mechanics are well greased and have a free movement as not to bog down the motor. "USE RAIN_X".
I think the older Spider had a generator and separate voltage regulator on the fender, so you would have to rewire it to work with the 65A alternators that is a combined unit.

If someone with an older Spider that knows about this conversion wants to step in here. That is assuming that their old Spider still works and is drivable. Usually the older spiders are not drivable and found in barns and have been abandoned by their owners to sell off the bumpers to the 80's guys.

[ch33kster]

Cheers Pope,

The H4 lamps are from an MG specialist here in good old blighty, i have relays which im going too fix these coming evenings.

I did a full nut ands bolt rebuild on my AS and she doesnt have a generator as far as im aware only the regulator and the original 45amp Manelli alt.

is there a way that I can just attach a 65amp Bosch without having to rewire? If so which would be the rec. alt?

Charles

[mdrburchette]

Oh Pope! I must disagree with you yet again. The older Fiats are alive and well!
I do agree with RainX, checking and cleaning all connectors, the headlight relay conversion and greasing the mechanics of the wipers. I have done the alternator w/internal regulator conversion and have been extremely satisfied. First, you may want to check voltage. I would hook your voltmeter to the battery and check it in various states, such as:
car off
car at idle with no accessories
car at 3k rpm no acc
car at idle w/acc
car at 3k rpm w/acc

The battery should read around 12v with the car off. With the car started, it should read around 13 and should go up around 14- 14.5v with it revved. Mine was showing 22v and after replacing the voltage regulator, bypassing wiring, replacing and rebuilding the alternator, it never would regulate itself properly. My lights would go dim and bright while driving and my wipers barely functioned. The radio would cut off if I turned the heater on. I ended up replacing the alternator with a Bosch and bypassing the external regulator. Here's how that can be done:
http://www.mirafiori.com/faq/content/alt-upgrade.html

[ch33kster]

Thats great mdrburchette, as Hot Chocolate sang "You Win Again"!!!

Thanks I will try the relays and hopefully be able to drive the bad British weather with excitement and not panic.

Just out of interest what Bosh alternator have you used?

PS Pope, my AS has been reborn as an absolute beauty LOL!

cheers,

Charles

[pope]

couldnt resist!

[mdrburchette]

Mine came off a 79. I would imagine just about any from another Spider would do the trick. One thing some people have come across with this conversion is the charge light doesn't go off until the car is revved to about 3k rpm and the alternator doesn't charge until the light goes out. I had the problem at one time, but mine doesn't do it anymore. I can't tell you why since the external regulator and charge light relay has been bypassed. The only thing different that I have is a diode in the charge light wire at the alternator due to the MSD box keeping the engine running when I turned the ignition off.

[majicwrench]

The problem you are having is not due to the alternator, so personally I see no reason to change it, but of course, that is up to you. Jumpering wires and regulators, lights that won't go out till reved, not my cup of tea. If the fuse is blowing the circuit is drawing too much current. The fact that the battery fizzed is not a sure indication of overcharging, testing with a voltmeter is in order.
With those H4 bulbs, the first thing I would do is the relays for the headlites.
Good luck,
Keith

[So Cal Mark]

you may just have high resistance at a connection causing a voltage drop. First, make sure the fuses are tight and clean, then check the connector at the ign switch

[mbouse]

using relays in the headlight circuits will also protect those 30-40 year old switches from burning up with all that extra juice that would other wise be flowing thru them.

30 year old plastic does not smell good when smoldering. it is also very expensive to replace, and creates a difficult fire to put out when it is tucked inside a steering column, or behind a dash panel.

[ch33kster]

a big THANKYOU ONE AND ALL!

I will attach the Relays this weekend and hopefully that should fix the problem.
I will keep you posted.

You guys are great!!!

Charles

[jppatin]

Howdy all,

I also have dim headlights. where do get the relays, what kind, and where do they go?
I also heard of a conversion kit, how hard is it to install and where do you get one?

Thanks
JP

[ROOK1]

I made mine using the connectors and relays form my parts car. You can make one using parts from a local parts store or find a kit online. I know there are several kits out there but this is probably the most popular of the bunch. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/prod ... ducts.html

The main things you need are 2 female plugs to the lamps, 1 male plug that mates with the female lamp plug on the harness (this will be used for trigger to relays), 2 relays, 2 inline fuses and some wire.

See this link as well. http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... elays.html

[rlux4]

Greg Smith over at Mira sells a relay kit for $70, including shipping. It was recently plugged in a post by Ventura Ace, very favorably. I saw the kit as he installed it in several cars at last year's Oregon 08 campout and was very impressed.
You can contact him here: gfs@gregoryfsmith.com.
Ron

[mdrburchette]

I just ordered my kit from Gregory. I like the idea that he's done all the legwork and all I have to do is install it. I'll let you know if it changes anything.