Clutch Pedal Resistance

[Fiat124Spider75]

Hi All
I’m a new member and this is my first post/request for help.
I have a 1975 124 and the clutch pedal is giving me a workout. I have driven many manual cars and have never experienced this. It almost feels like the resistance against the pedal is going to break the cable.
I disconnected the clutch cable from both the pedal fork and the clutch fork to test if the cable slides smoothly through the cable housing and it does. So now I am wondering if the clutch plate springs are somehow malfunctioning. Or are these just really hard clutches to push and I am an old fart that needs to strengthen my left foot?
Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Mike

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Or are these just really hard clutches to push and I am an old fart that needs to strengthen my left foot?

I can't speak to the old fart question, but the Fiat spiders clutches are fairly easy in comparison to other manual transmission cars of that era. Since the cable doesn't appear to be the issue, it sounds like something inside the clutch assembly although I'm at a loss to suggest what might go wrong to make the clutch so stiff. Wearing down on the pressure plate so you are depressing a stiffer "working area" of the splines? The throwout bearing has a huge amount friction on the shaft housing it rides along?

Has the problem always been there or has it gotten worse lately?

-Bryan

[Fiat124Spider75]

I recently bought the car and the previous owner only told me that he had recently had the cable tightened. So I don’t know much more than that. It has no problems with shifting, meaning no grinding up or down in gears.
It does feel a little like there is a bite when letting the pedal back up. Meaning it is not an easy release of the pedal, if that makes any sense. The the cable disconnected from the pedal, the pedal moves nicely by hand. But I was thinking about taking apart the linkage and replacing the bushings or plastic parts within it. I just didn’t want to take it apart if it has nothing to do with my issue.

[ORFORD2004]

If you use to drive hydraulic clutch like Honda, you will think it's harder and you don't want to try stage 2 clutch. Check the firewall for cracks.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

The first thing I would check is the clutch pedal free play. Press on the clutch pedal with your hand. It should move about an inch before it starts to get to the point that you can't depress it any further (with your hand), which is the point when the clutch is starting to disengage.

Sometimes this isn't adjusted right, which can make the clutch pedal very hard to depress, although more so at the end of its travel than at the beginning.

-Bryan

[Fiat124Spider75]

First, Sorry for the late response.

The clutch pedal bites or gets hung up on something as you push down as well as when you are releasing. It has gotten so bad that the pedal has gotten stuck to the floor multiple times. It only takes a gentle wiggle to have it release, but it have disabled my ability to drive it. It feels like metal on metal. So I decided that I was going to take the whole assembly apart and redo it. I pulled the main bolt holding the assembly and I watched each component fall to the floor as I pulled it out. Then at the end the bolt is stopped from coming all the way out because it hits the firewall. The clutch pedal is the only part still stuck on the bolt because the bolt will not come out all the way.
I hope I don’t regret this.
Any thoughts videos?

[FredWinterburn]

I responded to the other thread with the same title and reported that our 1971 (new to us) Fiat Spider also has a very stiff clutch. This cable was replaced about 5 years ago. Looking at the various websites and vendors that sell cables, it appears that 1971 should have the shorter cable (by about two inches for both the sheath and the cable compared to the early, longer cable ). Well, I am certain that this car should actually have a longer cable as it takes a very short radius 90 degree bend tightly around the brake booster with absolutely no spare length. A more gentle radius would be much preferred to reduce pedal effort. I'm thinking of ordering the longer cable. Actually I wish the longer cable were 3 inches longer rather than only two inches. Question: Other than the difference in length, are the cable ends the same between the short and long cables? And, were there transition years where the cable length might have still been the long cable? This car has the 1600 engine originally BTW. Thanks, Fred

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Fred, there was a longer cable on early spiders and a shorter cable on later spiders, and I think that transition was around 1970 or 1971. The early cables were about 50mm longer overall (inner cable plus sheath). As far as I know, the fixtures on the end were the same. Your 1608 car originally had the shorter cable although I *think* you could use a longer cable. I did some searching for part numbers on spider clutch cables and came up with 6 or 7 different parts numbers...

As for the OP's question, stickiness and crunchiness in the clutch action is sometimes a crusty cable, sometimes an issue with the throwout bearing in the clutch, and sometimes an issue with where the cable passes through the firewall just above the brake booster. Later cars seemed to have an issue with the metal of the firewall fatiguing in that area causing the cable to flex around as you press on the clutch. Have someone press the clutch pedal while you inspect where the cable comes out of the firewall into the engine compartment.

-Bryan

[FredWinterburn]

Thanks Bryan, Good advice. Fred

[FredWinterburn]

This is a deletion and the reason this forum needs a delete button

[fishlaw]

I just replaced the clutch cable on my '85. The first time around, the swedge on the cable was against the fork , and the clutch was hard to operate, noisy and didn't return properly. On the second install, I was able to get the end fitting to sit in the fork and the clutch pedal now operates smoothly and quietly. But getting the fitting to sit in the fork is no easy task, since only the first 1/2 inch of the fitting can go into the fork. Check to make sure only the end of the fitting is sitting in the fork, properly oriented so it rotates in the clutch pedal fork!

[18Fiatsandcounting]

But getting the fitting to sit in the fork is no easy task, since only the first 1/2 inch of the fitting can go into the fork. Check to make sure only the end of the fitting is sitting in the fork, properly oriented so it rotates in the clutch pedal fork!

Getting that half-moon shaped wedge properly into the fork of the clutch pedal is very difficult as many of us have found out. There is a solution, but not everyone is willing to do this. If you remove the cowl (the piece to the rear of the hood that has the wiper motor and linkages), you can cut an access hole in the "bowl" underneath so that you can easily get to the top of the clutch fork. You have to measure exactly where to cut that hole, and then of course you have so seal it up so that water doesn't leak onto the top of the pedal assembly (and your feet).

I carefully measured where the cable entered the firewall, and then did some exploratory holes with a drill. Then, the access hole was slowly enlarged once I located where it should be, and I used a simple car body rubber plug to seal up the final opening which was round.

End result: To install the clutch cable on the pedal tang, no need to do it from the footwell, remove the cowl, remove the rubber plug, feed the clutch cable through the firewall with the left hand, and use the right hand to put the half-moon crescent wedge exactly where it should be, along with a dab of grease. 10 minute job and you can visually verify that it's connected properly.

-Bryan

[FredWinterburn]

What an absolutely great idea. I have to get into that area anyway because the wiper motor is so slow that I suspect the grease in the wheel boxes and wiper motor have aged as hard as plastic. Thanks for the suggestion. Fred

But getting the fitting to sit in the fork is no easy task, since only the first 1/2 inch of the fitting can go into the fork. Check to make sure only the end of the fitting is sitting in the fork, properly oriented so it rotates in the clutch pedal fork!

Getting that half-moon shaped wedge properly into the fork of the clutch pedal is very difficult as many of us have found out. There is a solution, but not everyone is willing to do this. If you remove the cowl (the piece to the rear of the hood that has the wiper motor and linkages), you can cut an access hole in the "bowl" underneath so that you can easily get to the top of the clutch fork. You have to measure exactly where to cut that hole, and then of course you have so seal it up so that water doesn't leak onto the top of the pedal assembly (and your feet).

I carefully measured where the cable entered the firewall, and then did some exploratory holes with a drill. Then, the access hole was slowly enlarged once I located where it should be, and I used a simple car body rubber plug to seal up the final opening which was round.

End result: To install the clutch cable on the pedal tang, no need to do it from the footwell, remove the cowl, remove the rubber plug, feed the clutch cable through the firewall with the left hand, and use the right hand to put the half-moon crescent wedge exactly where it should be, along with a dab of grease. 10 minute job and you can visually verify that it's connected properly.

-Bryan

[18Fiatsandcounting]

What an absolutely great idea. I have to get into that area anyway because the wiper motor is so slow that I suspect the grease in the wheel boxes and wiper motor have aged as hard as plastic. Thanks for the suggestion. Fred

Here's how I located where to drill the access hole:

First, I assumed that the cable went straight back where it enters the passenger compartment through the firewall, rather than going off to one side. This established the left to right location of the access hole.

To establish the front to back location of the access hole, from down in the footwell, I did some measurements on where the pedals' (brake and clutch) pivot bolt was located, assuming that the clutch cable tang is pretty much directly above, which it kinda is. I then was able to take these measurements and mark the front to back drilling location for the access hole. I started with a 1/2" hole, and you have to be careful as there may be wires or sound deadening stuff underneath this metal. So just drill through the metal and no further. Then, once the hole was big enough to put my finger through it, I could feel around to make sure there wasn't anything nearby and then slowly enlarged the hole by drilling around it. Eventually I got to the point where I could see the clutch fork tang-thingie with a flashlight.

From there I simply cleaned up the edges of the hole with a file, drilling and filing to match the size of a rubber body plug.

The hole ends up being right where the cowl "bowl" transitions from level to sloping. Not a big deal, and the rubber plug seems to adapt to this although I think a rectangular plug (with rounded corners) would be better. And I don't drive the car in the rain.

-Bryan

[FredWinterburn]

Thanks Bryan. Regarding those wires that run through the pedal box for the brake light switch, I am going to reroute those. The power supply lead was chaffing up in there and intermittently shorting so out they come. I've just started on fixing the wiring fiascos that exist behind the dash. A new Lada ignition switch has cured some of the issues, but my column mounted switch is toast. Some of the contacts are burnt right out. The only set that works consistently are the signal light contacts. The headlight switch (3 position) only works with the lever down which is why the second owner of the car wired in another switch for low/high beams but I'm sure he made both lows and highs come on together with that bodge job. At least I was able to remove the extra switch for the ignition circuit when I put in the new Lada ignition switch. What a rats nest of bad splices, new wires, and generally poorly thought out modifications. A fire waiting to happen. I may not be able to locate a new 3 position column switch so I may be modifying things as well for a two position switch (headlight portion). Anyway, lots of work still ahead. At least I have the heater fan working now. Fred