Car will not start

[Dahlstan]

Hello fellow spider owners,
I posted this in my greetings/introduction to this page but I thought I would move the issue over to this section in hopes that more people will read it. One of the previous owners installed a safety switch of sorts thats linked to the ignition. The car was running until the tow truck driver got into the car to drive it to his truck and the car stalled on him. He delivered to me not running but turning over. Apparently, when the switch is flipped a light is supposed to turn on where the battery light is, however when I flick it, I get nothing. If anyone here has a similar set up or can offer insight on how to proceed into getting the car running again I would appreciate it. I am going to check out what the switch is linked to either later today or tomorrow but I assume its connected to either the fuel pump or spark plug system since it stalled out on the tow truck driver. I bought a voltmeter so I can try and check which wires have gone bad if that is the issue but I honestly do not know where to start, My area of expertise is on the more mechanical side of cars (replacing brakes/rotors, spark plugs etc). I believe and hope this is a simple issue, possibly a blown fuse or the connections between the switch and battery have gone bad but I am not sure. I would love to get the car running myself because this is why I bought the car, and there is also only one shop that can work on Fiat spiders in Richmond and it is booked three weeks out and I do not have that time.

[Tcamp]

Welcome to this forum. You have a cool car - please post a pic. I would turn key on and check power at the small positive + terminal on coil. Battery power should be present. If not, just jump a wire from battery to this spot, crank it, it will probably start and if it does, wire will have to be removed to shut car off. This will determine if they interrupted the ignition system for security system. Hope this helps.

Todd.

[Dahlstan]

Welcome to this forum. You have a cool car - please post a pic. I would turn key on and check power at the small positive + terminal on coil. Battery power should be present. If not, just jump a wire from battery to this spot, crank it, it will probably start and if it does, wire will have to be removed to shut car off. This will determine if they interrupted the ignition system for security system. Hope this helps.

Todd.

Ok, just to make sure I do things right (electronics is by no means my strong suit), I should check the voltage on the engine coil, and make sure power is there, and if not, run a jumper cable (the red one only) to the engine coil from the battery and see if she starts. I'm not sure how to post a picture using the Img feature, I'll try to figure it out. Thank you so much.

[Tcamp]

yes its just hot wiring the car /a fused jumper wire should be used

[spider2081]

Welcome to the site and best of luck with your new car.

I believe an unmodified 1978 Spider came from the factory with a mechanical fuel pump only. If the car has an electric fuel pump that is most likely a modification. Also the car would have had a dual point distributor. One set of points for starting and one set for run. Over time many of these cars ignitions have been modified with a "Pertronix Igniter" eliminating the 2 sets of points. One can easily tell if this mod has been completed by removing the distributor cap and looking inside.

To check for Spark I like to use a spare spark plug. I remove the #3 spark plug wire from the #3 plug and put the spare plug into the wire. I then ground the plug on the hood latch mechanism on the firewall. Have someone help you to turn the key while you look for a spark.
The ignition coil should have a light blue/black striped wire on the + terminal. This is where you could check for voltage when the ignition switch in in either the "Start" or the "Run" positions. It is important to check both positions as the ignition switch can fail in either position and the engine will not run.
Hope this is some help

[Dahlstan]

Welcome to the site and best of luck with your new car.

I believe an unmodified 1978 Spider came from the factory with a mechanical fuel pump only. If the car has an electric fuel pump that is most likely a modification. Also the car would have had a dual point distributor. One set of points for starting and one set for run. Over time many of these cars ignitions have been modified with a "Pertronix Igniter" eliminating the 2 sets of points. One can easily tell if this mod has been completed by removing the distributor cap and looking inside.

To check for Spark I like to use a spare spark plug. I remove the #3 spark plug wire from the #3 plug and put the spare plug into the wire. I then ground the plug on the hood latch mechanism on the firewall. Have someone help you to turn the key while you look for a spark.
The ignition coil should have a light blue/black striped wire on the + terminal. This is where you could check for voltage when the ignition switch in in either the "Start" or the "Run" positions. It is important to check both positions as the ignition switch can fail in either position and the engine will not run.
Hope this is some help

Ok, so from what I could tell there is no voltage running through the ignition coil but when I tested its resistance and it’s reading pretty close to normal. So I’m not sure if it’s just not receiving power or if it’s just dead. The condenser also seemed normal when I checked it’s resistance. I attached few pictures of the engine bay so y’all can see what I see.

[spider2081]

it looks to me like someone has modified the cars wiring. The wire coming out of the distributor should connect to the ignition coil D terminal The other coil terminal should measure battery voltage when the ignition switch is in either the "start" or "Run" positions. If you do not have battery voltage on the coil + terminal switch the bat on the switch the previous owner had installed to see if then there is voltage.
Usually when the engine is not running the engine stops in a position where the points are closed. The points when closed ground one side of the coil. The other side needs battery voltage for the coil to work.

[Dahlstan]

it looks to me like someone has modified the cars wiring. The wire coming out of the distributor should connect to the ignition coil D terminal The other coil terminal should measure battery voltage when the ignition switch is in either the "start" or "Run" positions. If you do not have battery voltage on the coil + terminal switch the bat on the switch the previous owner had installed to see if then there is voltage.
Usually when the engine is not running the engine stops in a position where the points are closed. The points when closed ground one side of the coil. The other side needs battery voltage for the coil to work.

Ok, FINALLY I got the car to start by running a wire form the battery directly to the ignition coil. The light lit up on the dash that the dealer and driver talked about so I believe the BAT switch is in good shape. Should I replace the ignition switch since that seems to be not sending power to the coil? or would it be a wiring problem from the coil to the ignition? A new ignition switch is 100$ with shipping from Vick so I just want to make sure that I'm ordering the right part. Thank you guys so much!

[spider2081]

Some Spiders have had their ignition switches replaced with aftermarket switches. The wire for the original and the aftermarket switch are different.
I think the next thing you should do is identify what ignition switch is in the car.
Original ignition switch was manufactured by "Sipea" And a small oval insignia will be stamoed in the shinny face of the ignition switch with Sipea inside the oval.
Aftermarket switches have symbols on the shinny fave thaat sort of look like roman numerals.
Which type switch is presently in the car. One would need to know that to properly suggest how to check it.
The original Sipea switch had wires soldered to the switch and a short pigtail with a 6 cavity nylon connector on it. One of the terminals in the cars connector should have a light blue wire with a black stripe on it. This terminal should mate with a pink wire in the ignition switch's connector. That wire should have battery voltage on it when the key is in either the "start" or the "run" positions. If the wire on both sides of the connector have power the the ignition switch is working.

[Dahlstan]

Some Spiders have had their ignition switches replaced with aftermarket switches. The wire for the original and the aftermarket switch are different.
I think the next thing you should do is identify what ignition switch is in the car.
Original ignition switch was manufactured by "Sipea" And a small oval insignia will be stamoed in the shinny face of the ignition switch with Sipea inside the oval.
Aftermarket switches have symbols on the shinny fave thaat sort of look like roman numerals.
Which type switch is presently in the car. One would need to know that to properly suggest how to check it.
The original Sipea switch had wires soldered to the switch and a short pigtail with a 6 cavity nylon connector on it. One of the terminals in the cars connector should have a light blue wire with a black stripe on it. This terminal should mate with a pink wire in the ignition switch's connector. That wire should have battery voltage on it when the key is in either the "start" or the "run" positions. If the wire on both sides of the connector have power the the ignition switch is working.

The one in the car has the Roman numerals and my keys have Russian lettering, do you know how I would check a switch like this? I can attach pictures of the switch (front and back) if needed.

[spider2081]

Pretty sure that is an aftermarket switch.
There would be short jumper wires to connect that switch to the cars wire harness connector.
Just happens there is another post here on ignition switch wiring. Someone posted what wires go to what terminals on the switch.
This works provided the person who installed the jumper wires inserted them into the correct colored wires in the cars 6 cavity connector.
So I'm assuming you don't have a Si[ea ignition switch as a spare that came with the car.

[Dahlstan]

Pretty sure that is an aftermarket switch.
There would be short jumper wires to connect that switch to the cars wire harness connector.
Just happens there is another post here on ignition switch wiring. Someone posted what wires go to what terminals on the switch.
This works provided the person who installed the jumper wires inserted them into the correct colored wires in the cars 6 cavity connector.
So I'm assuming you don't have a Si[ea ignition switch as a spare that came with the car.

If I replace the ignition switch, would I be able to put an OEM switch back into the car from what you know? or would it be simpler to keep the lada switch in the car?

[spider2081]

If I replace the ignition switch, would I be able to put an OEM switch back into the car from what you know?

Its my opinion for future troubleshooting its best to have car as close as possible to the original Fiat wiring configurations. That way those familiar with Fiats can more easily maintain the car.
Danny at Fun Imports Auto & Toys had some used Sipea switches his tel # is 860-871-1990 These switches are very year specific. So it would be good to give him the manufacture date stamped on the data card on the driver side door post. Its located just below the latch.
If he has the switch I would also get a new car side 6 cavity mating connector pre-wired with a short pigtail so you can splice it back to the cars original wires. This eliminates the questionable wires installed by previous owners.
Also I would suggest joining mirafiori.com so you can access their library of wire diagrams. Download Fiat publication "Spider 2000 Electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981. Its great reference material for all Fiats Spiders. Naturally some of its contaents will not apply to your car but much will.
My email is:
flyme194@gmail.com

[Dahlstan]

If I replace the ignition switch, would I be able to put an OEM switch back into the car from what you know?

Its my opinion for future troubleshooting its best to have car as close as possible to the original Fiat wiring configurations. That way those familiar with Fiats can more easily maintain the car.
Danny at Fun Imports Auto & Toys had some used Sipea switches his tel # is 860-871-1990 These switches are very year specific. So it would be good to give him the manufacture date stamped on the data card on the driver side door post. Its located just below the latch.
If he has the switch I would also get a new car side 6 cavity mating connector pre-wired with a short pigtail so you can splice it back to the cars original wires. This eliminates the questionable wires installed by previous owners.
Also I would suggest joining mirafiori.com so you can access their library of wire diagrams. Download Fiat publication "Spider 2000 Electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981. Its great reference material for all Fiats Spiders. Naturally some of its contaents will not apply to your car but much will.
My email is:
flyme194@gmail.com

Ok I will give him a call. Thank you so much for all your help, it means a lot!