Ignition Switch Wiring

[SpiderGuy]

Are these Ignition Switch Wires all connected like they should be in the correct positions ?

1981 Fiat 124 Spider

For some reason the electric fuel pump is NOT getting power like it used to when the Ignition Switch is in the cranking position. The Starter cranks but the Engine is not starting.
Fuel Pump runs When I hook jumper wires to it from the Battery so we know the fuel pump is OK.

The Pink and Orange wires share the same connection post 30

[SpiderGuy]

[Integrale]

Should be a Brown wire connected to pin 30, red to pin 50 which leads to C31 a five pin connector where a smaller red with black wire splits off to the fuel pump relay, so I would check that connector for bad wires. I don't see any orange wires in the wiring diagram connected to the ignition switch. A blue with black wire connected to int. Pink connects to 15/54

[spider2081]

The original ignition switch in your car would have been manufactured by Sipea and the shinny cover of the switch would have that stamped into the metal. The switch in the photos appears to be an aftermarket replacement.

The internal workings of the original "Sipea" switch and the aftermarket replacement switches are different. There are a number of posts with the correct wire color to pins numbers on this site.
The original ignition switch had wires soldered to its terminals and a 6 cavity connector on the other end. Is the female (mating) 6 cavity connector still in the car? If it is does it show any signs of over heating? If its not how do the wires in the phots connect to the cars harness?

Many times the original "Sipea" switches electrical portions can be repaired. Do you still have the original "Sipea" switch??

[SpiderGuy]

Here are more pics of the Wiring Harness and the Switch

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Based on the Cyrillic script on your switch, it's likely one of the Lada-type switches. Nothing wrong with that, but there might be some subtle differences in switch function.

On the wiring: Based on all the electrical butt connectors and various mods to the switch wires, someone has been in there before. For an '81 spider, here are the wire colors that you should see at the ignition switch, but note this is the original factory wiring and may not be what you have, so you would need to trace the wires back past the mods to see what color the factory wire is:

50 terminal goes to a large red wire.
30 terminal goes to a large brown wire.
30/1 terminal goes to a large black wire.
15 terminal goes to a large pink wire.
INT terminal goes to a light blue/black wire that transitions to a light blue and light blue/red wire at a connector.

Note that this is for the original switch, so your aftermarket Lada switch might be different.

-Bryan

[SpiderGuy]

Ok good info thanks, I think I will see if I can order a new original type Switch and Keys.

That will take the funky after market ?Polish?switch out of the equation

[spider2081]

I think I will see if I can order a new original type Switch and Keys.

I believe you will find the original Sipea switch is not available.new. You might find one used.
Do you have the original Sipea switch with it's key??
If so does it work correctly mechanically?

I might be able to help you if interested my email is: flyme194@gmail.com

[SpiderGuy]

I think I will see if I can order a new original type Switch and Keys.

I believe you will find the original Sipea switch is not available.new. You might find one used.
Do you have the original Sipea switch with it's key??
If so does it work correctly mechanically?

I might be able to help you if interested my email is: flyme194@gmail.com

Thanks for the offer of help /email , I do not have the original switch, just the one pictured. Unfortunately someone before me has "worked on" (hacked up) the old Spider. I bought it as a non running yard find that had been sitting for about the last 7 years.

Ill keep trying and see if I can get it running.

[SpiderGuy]

50 terminal goes to a large red wire.
30 terminal goes to a large brown wire.
30/1 terminal goes to a large black wire.
15 terminal goes to a large pink wire.
INT terminal goes to a light blue/black wire that transitions to a light blue and light blue/red wire at a connector.

Note that this is for the original switch, so your aftermarket Lada switch might be different.

-Bryan

Bryan when I first posted pics of my Spider you spotted an after market Toggle Switch on the dash next to the Ignition Switch and asked what it was for.
I have now seen that it is wired to splices on the Black Wire and one of the Pink wires leading to the Ignition Switch.

I don't know why Bubba did that ..maybe a fuel pump cut off switch ?

I will reconnect the Ign Switch today then flip the switch to see if the fuel pump comes on like it used to when the Ign Switch is in the starter cranking position.

Thanks, Keith

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I don't know why Bubba did that ..maybe a fuel pump cut off switch ?

Keith, that might have something to do with the issue. Back it my younger (more foolish) days, I installed an ignition cutoff switch up under the dash. It was supposed to be a rudimentary anti-theft device, since I generally left the car parked outside and unlocked, as I was told that thieves would just cut the top to get into my (locked) car. The switch disabled the power to the ignition coil, and it was fairly well hidden under the dash although I could easily find it by feel.

So, I think you'll need to do some wire tracing to track down the mods that have been done. Do you have a schematic for your car? They are generally available on mirafiori.com, although you have to register to have access to the "library" where a lot of useful info is stored.

-Bryan (who occasionally does Bubba things)

[Dahlstan]

I don't know why Bubba did that ..maybe a fuel pump cut off switch ?

Keith, that might have something to do with the issue. Back it my younger (more foolish) days, I installed an ignition cutoff switch up under the dash. It was supposed to be a rudimentary anti-theft device, since I generally left the car parked outside and unlocked, as I was told that thieves would just cut the top to get into my (locked) car. The switch disabled the power to the ignition coil, and it was fairly well hidden under the dash although I could easily find it by feel.

So, I think you'll need to do some wire tracing to track down the mods that have been done. Do you have a schematic for your car? They are generally available on mirafiori.com, although you have to register to have access to the "library" where a lot of useful info is stored.

-Bryan (who occasionally does Bubba things)

Oh my lord! I just bought a 1978 Spider and I've been having issues with the car starting. It just so happens that my car has the same ignition switch that is wired to the engine coil. I have the Lada type ignition switch as well, do you have any suggestions on how I can diagnose if it the kill switch or the ignition switch that is the problem? When I directly wired the ignition coil to the car battery it started perfectly, but without the two connected it just turns and turns. thank you!

[SpiderGuy]

Based on the Cyrillic script on your switch, it's likely one of the Lada-type switches. Nothing wrong with that, but there might be some subtle differences in switch function.

50 terminal goes to a large red wire.
30 terminal goes to a large brown wire.
30/1 terminal goes to a large black wire.
15 terminal goes to a large pink wire.
INT terminal goes to a light blue/black wire that transitions to a light blue and light blue/red wire at a connector.

Note that this is for the original switch, so your aftermarket Lada switch might be different.

-Bryan

I removed the Mystery toggle switch after trying it in both positions because it did not seem to make any difference.
Then I traced the wires back past Bubba's splices. The attached Picture Shows what looks like the original wires colors to the Ignition Switch. With 18 Fiat Brian's recommendation of which terminal each wire should connect to I hit the starter but still no go.

I hooked the wires up in those positions but still no fuel pump turning on and engine won't start even with a jump wire to run the fuel pump.

Who knows what other sensors or switches may be the problem..will have to keep checking things out

Does this attached Picture look correct as far as original wires and position on the Ign Switch?

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Oh my lord! I just bought a 1978 Spider and I've been having issues with the car starting. It just so happens that my car has the same ignition switch that is wired to the engine coil. I have the Lada type ignition switch as well, do you have any suggestions on how I can diagnose if it the kill switch or the ignition switch that is the problem? When I directly wired the ignition coil to the car battery it started perfectly, but without the two connected it just turns and turns. thank you!

I don't have a wiring diagram for a '78 spider, but I'm guessing it's similar to earlier years. If that's the case, there should be a light blue/black wire connected to terminal 15 on the back of the ignition switch. When the key is in the RUN or START position, terminal 15 (and thus the light blue/black wire) should have 12V on it. This is the power for the ignition coil, so check to make sure you're getting power there. Safety tip: Make sure the car is in neutral before turning to START while you're working on it.

If terminal 15 has power in RUN and START, then the problem lies between there and the B+ terminal on the ignition coil. Make sure it has power in both RUN and START, not just one or the other. Could be a break in the wiring, someone installed a kill switch, bad connection, etc.

If terminal 15 does not have power in RUN or START, then check the power at terminal 30/1 which should have a large black wire attached to it. If terminal 30/1 has power (but terminal 15 doesn't), then you have an internal problem with the ignition switch. If terminal 30/1 does not have power, since this large black wire connects directly to the alternator output, then there's an issue somewhere with that wire. Note that terminal 30/1 (and the large black wire) will have +12V all the time, that is, it doesn't matter which position the key is in.

-Bryan

[SpiderGuy]

Do you have a schematic for your car? They are generally available on mirafiori.com, although you have to register to have access to the "library" where a lot of useful info is stored.

-Bryan (who occasionally does Bubba things)

I purchased 2 Service Manuals, an Owner's Manual and a very comprehensive 50 page Electrical Diagnosis and Troubleshooting Guide book. The Electrical Guide book has lots of procedures, diagrams and Wiring schematics but unfortunately most of the electrical stuff is way over my experience, like reading hieroglyphs or sandscrit. I'm really not even competent reading a voltage meter except for checking ground continuity or voltage. Don't know an Ohm from a Gnome.

I really pretty good at working with mechanical parts, engines, transmissions, brakes etc. and made a good living for about 10 years in my younger days doing Paint and Body, but electrics has always been like magic stuff to me that you cant even see (although I have sure felt some Pretty strong Electrical ZAPPS..haha