Sputters and dies

[whatsupwill99]

Hello all, almost a year ago, I bought an 81 spider that hadnt run in around 10 years due to an issue with the ignition switch. I swapped that out relatively quickly, but have been plagued with fuel delivery issues ever since. On that topic, I have cleaned the injectors, the rail, put in a new fuel pump, filter, and tank, as the old one was well rusted out. The car first started around a month ago, having done plugs, wires, etc, once I reinstalled the newly cleaned rail and injectors. It idled well. Since then the car has seemed to be declining on its ability to run smoothly. Every time I start the car, It will not hold idle, and sputters even when I'm revving it, and eventually dies. When I open up the line in the engine bay, the gas pours out well, and once I get the line back in, the car will run properly for a few minutes. Yesterday, I replaced the 6 month old fuel filter, thinking it may be clogged, pushed gas through the line, reattatched the line, and it idled well for around ten minutes, after which I took it for a mile long drive where the engine began to sputter, and eventually died as I pulled into my garage. Does anyone have any guidence, or experience with these types of issues? I'm certainly no mechanic, and I've run out of ideas. Thanks!

[aj81spider]

Try cracking the gas cap. The tank can build up negative pressure if your fuel recycling and vapor capture systems are clogged. A quick check is to let air in through the gas cap. If it runs well after that then you should check the return side of your fuel system.

[Donstoy]

Hi. I have a similar kind of problem with my fuel injected 1980 Spider 2000. It runs very well for about 40 km and then it will lose power and start to chug as if it is being starved for fuel. When it does this, I can depress the clutch and rev the engine successfully but as soon as I put a load on it by trying to drive again, it goes back to the low power and chugging. If I pull off the road and stop, it will idle nicely and rev up in response to the accelerator. If I turn the car off and wait wait for a couple of minutes, I can then restart it and it will drive normally for another 20 km +/- and then the whole routine will repeat. I have changed the fuel pump and fuel filter, tried running with the gas cap loosened, disconnected and plugged the line from the charcoal canister to the engine, checked the interior of the tank for debris, etc. but none of these measures has solved the problem although venting the tank directly seems to have made it less severe. Any thoughts?

[whatsupwill99]

Try cracking the gas cap. The tank can build up negative pressure if your fuel recycling and vapor capture systems are clogged. A quick check is to let air in through the gas cap. If it runs well after that then you should check the return side of your fuel system.

Upon cracking open the gas cap, the car now holds a very low, and rather rich idle. Im taking it as a good sign, and checking out the return line now!

[whatsupwill99]

No luck. I cleared lines each way, it holds an unsteady idle for about a minute, then dies out. Even with some light rev's, it quits out eventually.

[aj81spider]

Did you drive it around with the gas cap open? If the problem is fixed when you do that it's probably your vapor recovery system. If the problem isn't fixed by that then it's somewhere else.

Looking at the service manual there is a supply line and a return from the injector rails. If those are what you checked they are probably not be your issue.

There is a separate vapor recovery system that uses a charcoal cannister. This would be the path to depressurize your tank. It could be clogged hoses or that the charcoal cannister is bad as well.

Here's a diagram of how the hoses are connected: https://www.spiderroadster.com/124tankFI.htm

[whatsupwill99]

Ya, I went through and checked the lines. besides the hard steel under the cabin, theyre all new, and they all blew clear and clean. My guess is that pressure is dying out, because it isnt starting at all now. Every time I would mess with the system, or introduce some air to it, the car would run for about a minute, idle would get weird and die. Finally, it stopped running at all. Ive just got the rail out with plans to replace the regulator. Cleaning the rail and injectors again for good measure. We'll see what happens from there....

[tima01864]

What method did you use to clean the Injectors? I sent mine out for a cleaning http://www.hurstinjectorservice.com/index.html

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I have almost zero experience with the fuel injected spiders, but what you're describing sounds like the fuel pump is not getting fuel all the way up to the engine. This could be because of a vacuum that's building up in the tank (but you checked that by loosening the gas cap), or a clogged fuel pump or filter or lines (but I think you cleaned all that), or because the fuel hose between the tank and the fuel pump is leaking (and just sucking in air rather than pumping fuel.

If you haven't already, I'd check the hose between the tank and the fuel pump. If it's original, it's time for a replacement. Another possibility is a clogged filter at the end of the fuel tank pickup line (down in the tank as part of the fuel gauge sender unit).

-Bryan

[whatsupwill99]

The hose is all new as of this fall, but ill go back and check em again. I just installed a new pressure regulator, but it didn't change anything. The car ran for a few minutes, I touched the throttle, and it died.
I clean the injectors (just did em again while I had the rail out; because why not) by slipping them into a small piece of hose clamped at the other end, and pressuring the hose with a can of carb cleaner. After that, I hook some wires between the injector and a 9V battery, and let it spit out the carb cleaner a few times.

[whatsupwill99]

I no longer think its the fuel system. Ive replaced just about everything, and confirmed everything works independently. Now im thinking something else with the car is preventing it from idling properly. Where. or with the distributor are the injectors told to pulse? maybe there lies my problem. It may have something to do with rather smokey exhaust cropping up once the running problems started as well.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It may have something to do with rather smokey exhaust cropping up once the running problems started as well.

Does the smoke look like steam, perhaps with a slight sweet smell to it? If so, that's usually a sign of coolant leaking into the combustion chambers, often due to a leaking head gasket.

Are you losing coolant over time?

-Bryan

[Nut124]

I am not FI savvy, but the link below has a lot of good info.

https://www.mirafiori.com/faq/fiatFI_may2002.pdf

Right click and select Open in New Window or tab.

I'd download it before the site disappears.

[Nut124]

The Bosch L-Jetronic was used in just about all european cars in the early -80's.

Plenty of info out there;

http://www.type17.ch/downloads/Injectio ... ooting.pdf

https://xwebforums.com/wiki/images/e/e4 ... Manual.pdf

http://www.lonestar912.org/912%20Tech%2 ... Manual.pdf

[whatsupwill99]

It may have something to do with rather smokey exhaust cropping up once the running problems started as well.

Does the smoke look like steam, perhaps with a slight sweet smell to it? If so, that's usually a sign of coolant leaking into the combustion chambers, often due to a leaking head gasket.

Are you losing coolant over time?

-Bryan

I havent been able to run the car for more than a few minutes as of recently due to this issue, but it does not smell sweet of coolant, and I havent noticed any drop in coolant level since i replaced a leaky radiator, and added fluid about a month ago. I have seen some other notes on cars mentioned on other threads with similar issues being resolved by mag pickup replacement, so Im going to dig into the distributor tonight.