Gearbox clearance

[KidDingo]

Couldn’t find any information about the clearance required to remove the gearbox from under the car.
Discovered yesterday that 39cm (a tad under 16”) from the floor to the lowest point of the body (the chassis seam under the rocker panel) allows a couple of millimetres of clearance for the bell housing and shifter tower. That’s with the gearbox oil pan on the floor and sliding it out on flattened cardboard boxes.
Also, all the advice in this forum about removing the exhaust and intake manifolds to access the top bolts on the bell housing and starter was gold!
Anyway, sharing the info here for future reference.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Thanks KidDingo, and yes, the clearances involved in removing the transmission are tight indeed. Most of us have learned what works in each of our cars, but it is not easy. For me, with a 2L engine stuffed in a '69 body, removing the transmission involves removing the exhaust, removing the engine mounts and lowering the engine as far as it will go, and a lot of swearing (perhaps some in Italian as my vocabulary allows).

In short, we feel your pain, but we thank you for your input.

-Bryan

[SteinOnkel]

Removing manifolds? What!? Way too much work.

You daisy chain various extension and go over and parallel to the transmission.

As for millimeters of clearance - forget it. You need inches, my friend.

Not sure who decided that removing the shift tower was the way to go. It makes it a tiny bit easier, but it just kicks the can down the road something fierce. Get ready to need telekinesis to reinstall it.

Taking the transmissions out of these cars is an needlessly fussy undertaking. I've done it in a miata in 45 minutes flat.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Taking the transmissions out of these cars is an needlessly fussy undertaking.

Totally agree. In fact, I just put the transmission back into my '69 yesterday. (spoiler alert: It works)

One area that seems to cause clearance issues is the metal shift lever that goes into the transmission shift tower extension. (the chrome shaft and knob should already be removed) Even when put into 3rd gear, this shift lever gets hung up on the lip at the rear of the transmission tunnel opening into the cockpit.

A trick that I have used in the past, rather than remove the shift tower extension, is to remove the shift lever itself (the one secured by three 10 mm nuts for the bottom cup). If the rubber donut is removed, that lever is fairly easy to reinstall once the transmission is in the car, and the absence of the shift lever helps considerably when hoisting the transmission into place. At least in my cars.

-Bryan

[KidDingo]

Removing manifolds? What!? Way too much work.

You daisy chain various extension and go over and parallel to the transmission.

As for millimeters of clearance - forget it. You need inches, my friend.

Not sure who decided that removing the shift tower was the way to go. It makes it a tiny bit easier, but it just kicks the can down the road something fierce. Get ready to need telekinesis to reinstall it.

Taking the transmissions out of these cars is an needlessly fussy undertaking. I've done it in a miata in 45 minutes flat.

Well, actually it kinda made sense since I'm pulling the engine for a rebuild, too. So the manifolds had to come off at some point, and if it made it easier to get to the bellhousing & starter bolts, then that's a bonus.

As for the clearance, I was simply relaying what I experienced when I pulled out the gearbox without the shifter stick attached. It might be different for others with different models and/or suspension set ups, but thought it might be handy for someone else trying to gauge how high they will need to jack their car or the height of the ramps they will need.

In all, I agree with you - it's a PITA, especially if you hate lying under a car that is precariously perched on jack stands.

[RRoller123]

+1+1+1 to this, just take the whole shifter out! Can clean and lube it, check the parts. I found a broken plastic collar in the process.

"A trick that I have used in the past, rather than remove the shift tower extension, is to remove the shift lever itself (the one secured by three 10 mm nuts for the bottom cup). If the rubber donut is removed, that lever is fairly easy to reinstall once the transmission is in the car, and the absence of the shift lever helps considerably when hoisting the transmission into place. At least in my cars.

-Bryan"

[SteinOnkel]

Reinstalling that fucker is also a disaster.

For some reason the damn thing will only slide in from the top, but is perfectly fine falling out the bottom. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but I'm 90% sure it involved levitation.

To sum it up, there is no such thing as "just do xyz" on a transmission uninstall or install on these cars. It's gonna suck.

[dinghyguy]

When i did my tranny removal i jacked the car up a fair amount so i could get a jack under the tranny, lower it and then drag it out. Now i had lots of wood blocking around to safely hold the car up high enough. That way the only real issue i had was the starter bolt removals and that was just the usual multiple extension issue. Oh and there was a second bracket near the terminals holding the starter which was not shown on the manual and that took me a bit of time to find being well hidden. Once the starter was out all was clear but dirty sailing. There was so much gunk in and around the tranny that I was filthy when i finally got it out, but after cleaning everything putting it back in was a quick.

I removed the chrome shifter, but left all the rest of the shifter mechanism in place. Yes you need to loosen the centre console and remove the cover plate over the transmission where the reverse wires go through to get enough room for the shifter to come out, but that is easy if the screws are not rusted rigid. Even then a moment with a Dremel and then new screws on reinstallation solved that problem.

I also found having lots of clearance under the car enabled easier cleaning.

Be careful not to break the studs holding the rear of the tranny up......if you do you need to drill out the stud and add a bolt from above (ask me how i know)

cheers
dinghyguy

[18Fiatsandcounting]

There is no easy answer on these transmissions. In my case, the problem is much worse in that I have a 2L bellhousing stuffed into a '69 body. If you try to slide the transmission rearward, the bellhousing hits the transmission tunnel after about 2 inches, which is not enough to get the input shaft out past the clutch pressure plate splines. So I'm stuck. The only way this works is for me to lower the engine, tilt the engine and transmission downwards at the rear, to the point where the rear of the engine hits the firewall, and then slide the transmission away from the engine, and then down. The problem here is the shift lever hitting the lip on the opening in the cockpit, which is why I usually remove it.

-Grumpy Bryan

[SteinOnkel]

So I'm back at this again

With a Quickjack lift and a transmission hoist you STILL need to remove the shift tower for removal. You can clearly see on my chassis how banged up the opening around the shifter is from all the installs/re-installs. Oh and pro tip: jack up the engine in the front. It likes to pivot in the engine bay and defaults to falling forward, which will make the transmission removal or install impossible.

Transmission is back in place, but of course the input shaft is refusing to index with the clutch or pilot bearing; needs another half inch. So I decided to call it a night and go eat a burrito instead.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Transmission is back in place, but of course the input shaft is refusing to index with the clutch or pilot bearing; needs another half inch.

A clutch alignment tool makes life easier: https://autoricambi.us/clutch-alignment-tool/

Loosen the 6 bolts on the pressure plate, insert the tool, and then progressively tighten the pressure plate bolts in a crisscross pattern, checking every so often that the alignment tool still slides easily in and out. The transmission input shaft should then insert pretty easily. "Should" is the operative word here, though...

Since your transmission is already back in the car, and the burrito is presumably all gone, you just have to twist and work the transmission until it all slides together.

-Bryan

[SteinOnkel]

"Just" "Should" LOL

I didn't touch the clutch this time around*. I think I need to shove the transmission into gear and turn the rear yoke so that I can spin the input shaft in the front of the transmission.

*Unless the clutch disc shifted while taking out the old transmission. That seems highly unlikely though.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

It's unlikely your clutch disc shifted, and yes, engaging a gear and turning the rear yoke helps with getting the input shaft splines to line up in the clutch disc. But, you said earlier that you're not getting the last half inch. That sounds to me like the input shaft has engaged with the clutch disc, but it's the input shaft going into the pilot bearing in the rear of the crankshaft that's the issue, no?

Another burrito might help!

-Bryan

[RRoller123]

YES! It is the pilot shaft that causes the trouble. It needs to be well lubed. The clutch plate has some mounting play though, and without the alignment tool, I think it could be maybe 0.02" wild guess?

[SteinOnkel]

It's in.

I hate this job with the fiery passion of a thousand dying suns. Had to use the transmission bolts to pull it into place - not exactly a world class maneuver, but idgaf.

Three more alignment nightmares left. Shift tower, prop shaft and downpipe. Ugh.