Help! scary squeal!!

[nathanfirst]

Hey all!
My spider is a 1979 2000 auto (I know)
driving yesterday, got a squeal from the engine matching the revs. Quickly made it home. The next day, went to start and squeal was present with the turning of the starter...
Checked the oil, and it was low but on the stick. Topped it off. didnt help.
Drained the oil, changed the filter, added zinc. No metal in the old oil. didnt help.
Spider has always dripped a little oil, but not very much. seems typical oil pan, old car drips.
WHAT IS YOUR SUSPICION?
Bad ring? Oil pump?
Yes, I got it started, and it runs without noise at higher revs. But down to idle, dies quickly with some squeal. I shut it off right away. I am a motorcycle mechanic, and it seems bad.
The fact that it dies on low revs makes me think that one of the cyl is unhappy.... Please help.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

I doubt it's a serious engine issue, and more likely a fixable issue like the timing belt tensioner pulley has bit the dust. If you have a smog pump, I'd start there as these fail on a pretty regular basis with a resultant squeal.

-Bryan

[TwinFast]

I doubt it's a serious engine issue, and more likely a fixable issue like the timing belt tensioner pulley has bit the dust. If you have a smog pump, I'd start there as these fail on a pretty regular basis with a resultant squeal.

-Bryan

I also recommand to check the alternator belt and pulley

[nathanfirst]

I will check the tensioner and alterator belt. Im just concerned because of the way it dies... like a soft seize,,

OK. just looked at the tensioner and it seems like the belt is riding on it forward of the center of the pulley. So I see too much shine-y pulley face on the engine side of the pulley, (rear of the belt). Or maybe that is normal, but looks strange.

cut and paste into your browser to see photo

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=36 ... _tn__=EH-R

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Hmmm, in your first post, I missed the point that the engine was doing a soft seize as it squeals to a halt... Here's what I would do: Temporarily remove the alternator/water pump belt. If you have a smog pump or air conditioning compressor, remove the belts to those. Put the clutch in (clutch pedal depressed). Try and start it, and if you get a squeal and a soft seize when it dies, the only reasonable causes at that point are a bad timing belt tensioner or an internal engine issue, as those are the only things spinning at that point. There's weird things that happen like the starter motor doesn't disengage when the engine starts, but that's pretty rare.

Don't run the engine too long without the water pump turning of course.

-Bryan

[DieselSpider]

How is the oil pressure?

[nathanfirst]

Im scared to run the car very long given the squeal and the possibility of a soft seize.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

If your starter motor has been turning the engine over pretty much like normal, then I doubt you have a serious internal engine issue. You can also put a socket on the big nut on the end of the crankshaft and turn the engine by hand several revolutions, looking for any binding issues. This kinda needs a low profile socket in some cases, due to clearance between the engine and the radiator.

Most likely a bad alternator bearing or water pump or smog pump, but of course, I'm not there to hear the squeal in person. If by some chance you could get a recording of the squeal up on YouTube or the like, some of us could have a listen and see if we recognize the noise. Errr, I mean, "hear" if we recognize the noise...

-Bryan

[nathanfirst]

OK! I will try to take a video tonight and post it to youtube... I will send a link.

Thanks everybody!

[RRoller123]

Long winded answer, but it may prove useful:

On my car, when we redid the short block, we found the screen to the oil pump blocked by debris, to the tune of at least 50-60%, maybe even more. I also had an intermittent squeal that would only last a short period of time, Sounded like a cat fight. It was definitely not from the water pump or Alternator, and I could never quite identify exactly where it came from, but my suspicion is that the exhaust cam, at its rear bearing point, was not getting enough oil, especially when cold, and it was making the noise. The oil passage there is exceedingly small.

Oil starvation will cause all sorts of odd noises and maladies.

When I get around to it, the cam is coming out, will be measured, and a new head is going in, one that I just bought which has a full valve job that was done by Danny, but has not yet been used at all. Head and cam boxes already assembled. Will bolt it on and see if not only the squeal is gone, but also if the vibration is gone. A vibration that didn't exit even after the short block rebuild.

Pete

[nathanfirst]

yikes! This weekend I will pull the alt belt and hopefully good news.

[nathanfirst]

Here is a link to a youtube video of the sound. Help.
Alt belt is off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD_c7REqtjU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD_c7REqtjU

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Hmmm.... This isn't what you wanted to hear, but "I don't recall ever hearing a sound quite like that before."

It doesn't quite sound like a mechanical grinding like you might hear from an alternator or water pump. The noise seems pretty regular, and in synch with the engine as it cranks. I don't see a smog pump running off the exhaust cam, but you might have one down below (depends on model year I think). It could be engine bearing noise as RRoller mentioned, but I don't have much direct experience there.

You know, it almost kinda sounds like a whistle to me. Like you've got air being sucked (or pushed) through a narrow opening and it "whistles". Crazy idea, I know.

I hate to have you keep cranking it, but it would be really helpful to identify where the noise seems to be coming from. Intake side or exhaust side, top of the engine or bottom, front or back?

The one thing that I can say is that, since the engine wasn't running, it's not an exhaust leak.

By the way, how is the oil pressure? Does the low oil pressure light go out when you crank it, and if you have a working gauge, what was the pressure when it was running? Doesn't need to be exact, just whether 1/4 on the gauge, 1/2 way, etc.

-Bryan

[nathanfirst]

Just cranked it more and briefly started it. Oil light turned off right away.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Thanks for the info on the oil pressure.

I had missed this until now: You have an automatic transmission so any chance that there is something wrong with that? How is the transmission fluid level? Now that I think about it, I did have a 131 sedan long ago that had an automatic, and it would make a squeal when the fluid level got too low. It would go away at higher engine speeds as I guess the pump supplied enough pressure to keep it happy.

At a minimum, I'd check the auto transmission fluid level and perhaps get it changed if it's been a while.

-Bryan