Re: Having some issues my with 83... (SOLVED)

Odoyle · Post by **Odoyle** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:51 pm

I was driving my 83 to the gas station last week to fill her up when suddenly the car cuts out. Engine would turn over but wouldn't start, I assumed it was because it was low on gas (side note- this car has always started on a dime, almost no cranking ever). Filled up the tank half way and tried to start it and still wasn't starting so I figured the factory Bosch pump finally gave out. Drained the tank and replaced the pump and filter with a new one and I go to start it today and she still won't fire. I confirmed that the new fuel pump is working and circulating fuel by taking the air snorkel off and pushing the AFM flap with the key in the on-position, I can hear the fuel pump run and confirmed fuel was going through the rail. Also some side info, the pump says i needs to use a 20 amp fuse, but they only make 16amp and 25amp style fuses that fit in my fuse box, it has a german 16amp fuse in currently. Also when the car originally cut out, I had just flipped on the factory A/C fan switch. I originally ruled that out as being coincidental because I'v never had an issue flipping that switch while driving until then, I assumed the issue here was the fuel pump crapping out, but I've replaced it and the car still wont start. Any suggestions on how to proceed?
New pump and pre filter

Fuse Box

davery · Post by **davery** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:56 pm

Did you change the fuel filter when you changed the pump?

Odoyle · Post by **Odoyle** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:14 pm

davery wrote:Did you change the fuel filter when you changed the pump?

Yes, I installed a new high volume fuel pump and a Bosch fuel filter.

RRoller123 · Post by **RRoller123** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:48 pm

If fuel is making it under pressure to the rail, then the injectors aren't firing, Try there. ECU controls the opening and closing of the injector cycles.

Brad Artigue's FI manual will provide a lot of excellent help!

klweimer · Post by **klweimer** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:49 pm

Check the fuel pressure at the cold start valve?

RRoller123 · Post by **RRoller123** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Yeah, that will determine if the rail is properly charged. Good idea.

AFRetired · Post by **AFRetired** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Have you replaced the fuse in the separate white holder, position "O" in the manual? 16A Also controls the fuel injection

Odoyle · Post by **Odoyle** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:29 pm

AFRetired wrote:Have you replaced the fuse in the separate white holder, position "O" in the manual? 16A Also controls the fuel injection

I just poked my head down there and found it, fuse wasn't broken, but I replaced it with a new 16 amp fuse, still no start.

AFRetired · Post by **AFRetired** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:42 pm

Yep, it is a white 2.5 in (or so) fuse holder lives under the dash. Mine was to the left of the steering column, probably not standardized. I was up digging around under the dash last week, and when I finished, the car had exactly the same symptoms as yours. Taking the fuseholder apart, the ends/caps of the fuse fell apart in my hands. New fuse fixed it right up. Sorry no pics right now, the car is in a storage shed until I can get my garage cleaned out.

AFRetired · Post by **AFRetired** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:45 pm

Odoyle wrote:
AFRetired wrote:Have you replaced the fuse in the separate white holder, position "O" in the manual? 16A Also controls the fuel injection
I just poked my head down there and found it, fuse wasn't broken, but I replaced it with a new 16 amp fuse, still no start.

Could be the fuel injection double relay, under the glovebox, above the aircon assembly

76was124 · Post by **76was124** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:03 am

Did you confirm you have Spark? My favorite test is to loosen the air intake boot, open the throttle plate and spray some starter fluid in. Put the boot back on, step on the gas pedal and crank? If it doesn't fire for a second or two, then you likely have an ignition problem vs a fuel problem.

Odoyle · Post by **Odoyle** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:26 pm

I tried to start the 83 today and after no start after cranking I pulled spark plug 1 and it was wet with gas. That would mean that the injectors are firing, but I'm getting no spark. My orange plug wires look like their OE and could be contributing to my issue, but I doubt all four failed, right? Time to bust out a volt meter to start testing the magneti coil, any tips on testing a coil?

RRoller123 · Post by **RRoller123** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:42 pm

The CSI will do that too, without the injectors firing. It produces quite a substantial spray, and will actually flood the intake under the wrong conditions. Ask me how I know this. One very easy way to see if the injectors are actually firing is to listen to them with an automotive stethoscope. Very cheap, and you can clearly hear them click or not.

toplessexpat · Post by **toplessexpat** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:28 am

Using a Noid light on the injectors harness will show for sure they're getting power.

On the Fuse 0 (inline). I know it was good - but was the holder and the terminals within it? Just been through this rigmarole with a friends 2000. Went top to bottom through the electrics, just to eventually find the terminals weren't making a good contact. Replace the fuse holder with a modern one - and fired straight up.

76was124 · Post by **76was124** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:57 am

Odoyle wrote: I pulled spark plug 1 and it was wet with gas.

If you ground the spark plug to metal with it pulled out, and cranked, I take it there was no spark?

If there was spark, then I would double check your static timing. Your timing belt didn't break, or skip some teeth did it? Also, is your intake boot on securely to the intake and AFM?

If no spark, it could be your ignition switch. You could try moving the wire harness going into the back of the ignition switch a little when you crank. It could also be the pick up sensor in the distributor is bad or has a broken or grounded wire. ( I've pinched the small wire on it before with the distributor cap. Does the tach move a little while cranking, if so the pickup is working. It could also be the dual relay, or a fuse, but methodically checking the voltage at each point in the ignition circuit would be a good place to start before replacing anything.

Wiring diagrams courtesy of member Mr. Brad Artigue are at: http://www.artigue.com/fiat/

Before the car died and you replaced the fuel pump, had you worked on anything else on the car that could be related?