Dragging starter

[fergarelli]

Okay, so I've had a couple of different posts about the starter/solenoid wires and then the ignition switch wires and since those threads seemed to have gotten pretty lengthy I thought I would summarize in a new thread the latest issue with my starting problem.

So here's the background, originally, car would crank fine then slowly developed an intermittent "dragging" starter. Went through things and thought I isolated it to the starter/solenoid and replaced it (btw, couldn't have done it without help from folks on this website). That didn't do the trick so I cleaned the connector box of the red/brown wires coming off the starter to the ignition switch. Still "dragging" starter. Btw, got a new battery, so no issues there. And, the green "hot" wire from the battery to the starter has 12+ volts (found that out the hard way ).

Then, the ignition switch just stopped working at all. Meaning, no longer was it just a dragging starter, but rather, the switch wouldn't even turn on the accessories. So, thanks to a helpful person on the website, I found a replacement switch that fit my 76 124. I put in the new switch and BOOM, worked like a charm, initially. Then, the 4th-5th time I started it, the starter began dragging again (car was warmed up). It should be noted, the plastic casing on the clutch cable begins to melt/smoke if I keep trying to start the car in the "dragging" mode, but no issues when running. Based on info. from folks on this website, my suspicions are:

1. There is a faulty ground somewhere?
2. There is too much running through the ignition switch causing it to overheat? (should be noted that the replacement switch is an original from another similar year car, not a new aftermarket model).
3. A dirty connection at a connection box of the red/brown wire inside the dash somewhere?

I'm just grasping at straws here. The weather is FINALLY getting nice around here in Seattle and I'm dying to drive the car. That, and my father-in-law made a wisecrack that he would be in an old folks home by the time I got it running reliably, so I would love to make him eat his words. Any suggestions are much appreciated. Sincerely, Eric

[So Cal Mark]

did you put in a used starter? You need to check the amperage draw on the starter

[fergarelli]

Nope, put in a new starter. How do I test the amperage draw? Preferably without my wife being able to utilize my life insurance anytime soon .

[azruss]

How about the Solenoid. Is it new too. My concern is the starter getting that hot may indicate a drag in the engine that a good starter just cant overcome. Measuring 12v doesn't mean much unless there is a load on the starter. If you have a weak ground and/or weak connections in the starter circuit, all can measure 12v, but just can carry the amps required to drive the starter. Every time you crank your starter long enough to get it that hot, you are doing harm to the entire system.
stuff I have found in the past with similar issue:
wiring in the battery clamp as corroded
dirty ground between the chassis and the battery ground
corrosion on the engine ground at the chassis
dirty connectors at the solenoid lugs.
dirty connector at the ignition pigtail.
I know many of these you have already done. The 1st four suggestion came from living in a wet climate.

[Dougieb]

Check the ground wire from the transmission to the body.
Make sure there is one there and in good condition.
If your clutch cable is smoking under a load that tells me
current is passing through that cable.
A starter with a bad ground connection would act like one
with too little current.

Check all of your connections.
But make sure you have two good ground straps:
One from battery to engine on older models (not sure on
cars with battery in the trunk).
And one from transmission to body.
(At least that is where it is on my '72)

Good luck.
Let us know what happens.

[majicwrench]

The key phrase here is the clutch cable getting hot. You do not have a decent ground, and thus things are grounding thru the clutch cable. Not good.
From the battery (-) you need a big cable running to the engine block, and a smaller cable running to the chassis. You should also have a ground strap tween the chassis and the bellhousing, on mine it is on the lh side.
' Keith

[fergarelli]

Awesome suggestions! All of that makes total sense and would explain how I fried the previous ignition switch eventually. Now I know where to look tonight and will update soon, Eric

[fergarelli]

Wow, I can't find anything for a ground coming off the transmission or engine block. I have it up on ramps and don't see anything resembling a ground anywhere. My car is a 76 with the battery in the trunk, which the negative looks good there. What does the engine ground look like and where might it be? Also, do I need to find it or can I just install a ground somewhere to get the job done? Thanks so much for the help. Eric

[azruss]

The ground is a flat woven, bare strap that is welded to the bottom of the chassis near the gas pedal. The other end should bolt to one of the 3 starter mount bolts. I'm not sure the engine would even run without this or a substitute somewhere. If you need to make one, use a battery ground size cable.

[RRoller123]

I just added one (a heavy battery ground cable) from one of the studs where the air pump would be (no air pump on my 80FI) over to the bolt that mounts the heat sink for the coil to the inner fender. I need to find a better permanent place for the chassis end to mount to.

[majicwrench]

Like was said just make one up. Decent short battery cable w ring terminals on both ends, tween something solid on engine/trans and something solid on frame/body.
Keith

[fergarelli]

Fantastic, will do this weekend and then I'll post the results. Come on engine ground!!

[Dougieb]

I sure hope so!
What I believe is that your started/engine is grounding through
your clutch cable.
Even though you were melting your clutch cable, it was not
providing enough grounding to sufficiently turn the starter.
Good luck.
I hope this is it!

[fiat218]

My 79 is grounded from one of the lower starter bolts to the body/ frame

[fergarelli]

Eureka!!!!! That was it. I installed a battery grade cable between one of the bolts on the starter and the frame and the starter cranked so fast that I thought it was going to fly out of the engine compartment. 1 1/2 years, 1 starter/solenoid, 1 ignition switch and tons of cleaning wires and I finally solved the mystery. Well, you folks solved the mystery. Man, I wish I would have put in my initial post that the clutch cable was getting hot. O'well, now I don't have to worry about the starter or ignition switch for awhile, hopefully Thank you so much to all the people that responded to my inquires, it makes it that much sweeter knowing other people had a hand in figuring it out. Sincerely, Eric