Wires on Solenoid

[fergarelli]

Okay, so I read a bunch of posts and along with all that great info. and my manuals I am pretty confident my starter was the issue and was going out. So, I found one online and commenced to putting it in my 1976 124. Btw, those bolts were insane to get off. Anyway, I got the old starter out and then got the new one installed and everything put back together, finally. I reconnected the battery and then tried to start. Nothing. No clicking, no slow grinding, nothing. Before, the lights dimmed when the starter would turn really slow. I have a new battery as well. Now the lights don't dim and there is no clicking like before so I assume the solenoid/starter is not being energized by the battery. My suspicion is that I may have put the "hot" wire on the solenoid in the wrong order. That is, I couldn't remember if the two little lead wires went on the solenoid mount first or after the larger wire coming from the battery. I put the two little ones on first and now think that probably was a mistake. Could putting the wires in the wrong order on the solenoid mounting screw be my problem? Thanks in advance for any tips. Sincerely, Eric

[fergarelli]

Update: Okay, so I took the wires off the solenoid and see that there is a large green wire from the battery, and one small black wire, and one small red wire. Any help on how these wires connect to the solenoid is much appreciated. Eric

[nelsonj]

There are two connections on the stater:
1) There is a "post"/bolt and I think there are three wires on my 78 that go in it (as I recall). The big green wire, a black, and a brown as I recall. Looking at the schematic I am not sure about the color of the "brown" wire, but there should be three wires connected. All these wire will have an "eye" that slips over the post, and then you put the nut on the post/bolt to hold everything together. It doesn't matter what order you put these on as long as they are clean and make good electrical contact to the post.

2) Second, there is a small wire with a thin, covered connector. As I recall, this wire is red. It mates with a connector on the starter. If this wire is not connected properly nothing will happen when you turn the key.

Are you certain you connected all the wires to both the post and the connector - especially the red wire with the covered connector? The starter won't work properly unless everything is connected.

Post after you double check.

[nelsonj]

Looks at this post I did a few weeks back:
http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19133

You can see the green wire hooked up to the post along with another thick wire. As I look at this first picture, it looks like there are only two wires connected to the post. That other thick wire may actually have two wires with in it (at least that would be consistent with the schematic. The red wire is not really visible but it is behind the two wires on the post.

However, go down a few picture and I show the red wire and connector after I cut it (to put on a new connector for my new starter).

Hope these pictures help.

[fergarelli]

Thanks a ton for the info. Very helpful and confirmed I did in fact install it correctly. Check this out though, it still wouldn't start (or even think of trying to start) and then suddenly, boom, it was turning over like crazy, then it quit again unexplainably (sp?).

So here is where I am at. For some reason, it seems that if I barely mess with the wires coming out of the ignition switch, it starts immediately. Could a bad ignition switch cause the symptoms I originally had? That is, could a bad ignition switch or connection cause the starter to drag or not start at all? My theory is that the red wire that you are referring to that comes off the starter and goes to the ignition switch either has a bad connection or the switch itself is going out. Any thoughts?

[spider2081]

Have you visually checked the connector about 6 inches back from the ignition switch? It is common for them to become intermittent. Often there is a discoloration of the female connector that is the car's cable end. The ignition switch end is the male side.

[azruss]

a quick test for the starter solenoid. make yourself a 3' test wire with a spade connector on the end. plug one end into the side of the solenoid where the small wire connects. with the car out of gear, touch the other end to the back of the alternator where all the big wires are connected. if the starter jumps to life, then your starter solenoid is ok and the problem is the ignition switch or one of the connections upstream from the starter.

[nelsonj]

The red wire connects to the ignition switch, so yes a bad ignition switch could be the problem.

As I recall here are all the connection points beginning with the ignition.
1) A red wire connects to a tab on the ignition.
2) This red wire travels a few inches than then joins a connection "box"
3) This connection box connects this red wire to another red wire on the other side of the connection box
4) According to the schematic, this red wire leads to yet another connection box (I don't know where), then to another red wire
5) This final red wire connects to the solenoid

Here is what I would do. I would get a volt/multi meter, set it to read DC volts, put the black prong to ground and then put the red prong on the ignition where the red solenoid wire connects. I would then turn the ignition on (like cranking the car). Every time you turn the key you should read about 12V +/- 1V.
1) If you see 12V every time and the starter does NOT crank, your ignition is good, but either the red wiring or the solenoid is bad.

2) If you see 12V sometimes when you turn the key (and perhaps jiggle the key) either you have a bad ignition switch or the wiring to the switch (brown and black wires to the ignition switch on my 78) is loose and not providing power to the ignition. Check the connections to the ignition and at the connection box near the ignition switch.

Good luck - you are getting close to figuring this out and at least you know the starter is properly wired.