Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Gotta love that wiring . . .
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Marmeister
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:19 pm
Your car is a: 1980 FI Fiat Spider
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by Marmeister »

Hi Guys, Need some alternator help, please....

My new (to me) 1980 FI fiat spider's battery light came on and stayed on. Charged battery and let it ride for a couple of days...light stayed on, battery drained, alternator is not charging battery. Checked voltage at (4yr old) battery terminals - 11.5v. Started engine, put some load on and no change at battery terminals. There are two connectors besides the + and - alternator posts. One has 3 contacts and the other is a single contact. Pic attached. Not sure where it was purchased.

Image

Does anyone have a pinout and know what values should appear at each contact I'm hoping to figure out if Voltage Reg is OK and maybe visually inspect brushes (if possible) to see condition (is VReg even replaceable on this unit, and from where?). If problem deeper within alternator then maybe looking at replacing what i understood was a 2 yr old 95A alternator....

On a separate note, although the battery light came on and stayed on, somebody told me that if the light bulb is burnt out, it would prevent the alternator from charging the battery? Is that true? If true, how easy is to replace that bulb? Not that I need to in this case.

Many thanks,
Adham
Marmeister
1980 FI Spider - "LUIGI"
Ottawa, Canada
majicwrench

Re: Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by majicwrench »

Do not recognize that alternator, but here is some generic info..
The red wires should have B+ all the time.
The three wire connector...likely the regulator. One wire jumps to B+. Does the other wire jump to the single term connector?? (can't quite see) Then the last wire is the one that runs thru the light on dash ( usually) and is the exciter to let the reg know you have the engine on. If you unplug three wire connector does dash lite go out?? ( it should)

Methinks that single wire must be the brush holder?? IS that the case??

Wish I recognized alt, but check these things and let me know.
Keith
Marmeister
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:19 pm
Your car is a: 1980 FI Fiat Spider
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by Marmeister »

Thanks v much, Keith.
I tried to increase size of pic to make it more visible ... Single pin connector to the left, 3 pin connector on the right, main alternator B+ Post at far left.

Image

From the 3 pin connector, The yellow/white wire goes to B+. The green/red wire seems to be going to the dash light. The middle wire brown?/white goes to the left connector.

So if the yellow/wire reads 12V, and if the dash light works (which it does - its on), what can we tell about the value of the last wire re: whether the problem in VReg or alternator coils?

And is there a model # stamped somewhere, so you could search for a replacement VReg (if it turns out to be faulty)?

Also, found this link that has clear tutorials on how alternators, relays, (etc) work.
I hope some of us would find this site useful

http://www.autoshop101.com

Adham
Marmeister
1980 FI Spider - "LUIGI"
Ottawa, Canada
Marmeister
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:19 pm
Your car is a: 1980 FI Fiat Spider
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by Marmeister »

Hi folks,, here's an update on my troubles.. :roll: Sorry about the length of post, but it may help others who run into just ONE of these problems. :)
With the Key turned on in the ignition switch, but car not started, battery dash light should be on. Once car is started, that light should go off. On Luigi, I see the exact opposite, with the battery dash light staying on indicating alternator is not charging. Put voltmeter on battery and it reads 11.75V and doesn't increase when the engine is turned on, which is also indicating alternator is not charging. I was trying to find out who made Luigi's 95A alternator and to determine the pinout on the VReg (in the enlarged pic above) to test whether its the VReg or alternator winding itself.

From the 3 pin pigtail connector, The yellow/white wire goes to B+ post of the alternator. The green/red wire goes to the dash light. The middle wire brown/white goes to the left connector - this seems to go to the common of the WYE winding of this alternator.
When the green/red wire is disconnected from the wire to the battery dash light, and the latter is touched to ground, the battery dash light turns on.....so battery dash light lamp is OK.
Then a friend told me the alternator pics look like its a ford alternator, and that one of the bolts on the VReg is labeled "ground here to test". Image
When you do that, BRIEFLY, you should feel the alternator surge. This is bypassing the VReg by essentially simulating the VReg telling the alternator that the battery is fully drained (by grounding the pin)....gimme juice!! Alternator DOES surge, and voltage at the battery terminal increases......so, this indicates alternator itself is OK....more on that in the conclusion. :)

I didn't like the look of one of the wires from the pigtail connector, so i removed connector and metered it out. 2 of 3 wires registered open circuit when wiggled. From the VReg pic you can see its a motorcraft make (Ford). From a local parts store they suggested its off a 1996 2.3L , Mazda B2300 truck or a Ford Ranger. They were right, found a new pigtail connector from Ford dealer.
Replaced the pigtail connector, turned on ignition switch, and then started car and the battery dash light behaved properly…dash light came on, then turned off and stayed off. Voltage at battery was going up and alternator was charging battery….I shut it down, did some other work around car, tried it again…PROBLEM RETURNED! The opposite of what I just saw re-occurred…dash light didn’t come on, and when the engine was started, dash light came on and stayed on, voltage unchanged at battery, alternator no longer charging AND…when I tried the “ground here to test” on the VReg, alternator DIDN’T surge this time, which meant NOW THE ALTERNATOR wasn’t working .!!

Removed alternator, removed VReg and exposed the rotor winding terminals. Cleaned terminals and found a cold solder joint on one of them. You can see in pic that the connection can be easily separated with a small blade screwdriver.
Image
Re-soldered BOTH terminals, put everything back together and battery dash light and alternator now behaving properly……..don’t wish this on anyone….hope this helps someone on the forum! :)

Adham
Marmeister
1980 FI Spider - "LUIGI"
Ottawa, Canada
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tartan18
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:58 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat 124 Spider
Location: Lebanon, Oregon

Re: Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by tartan18 »

Just found this thread and I hope that someone more knowledgeable can help me out. Up until yesterday my 95a alternator was working fine. Yesterday it stopped charging my car's battery. I've isolated the problem to the exciter circuit because the red light does not come on when I switch the ignition key. Other than a burned out light bulb (which I will check tomorrow) are there any other diagnostic checks I could do?
Jim MacKenzie
1975 Fiat Spider
Finest Italian Automotive Technology
User avatar
tartan18
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:58 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat 124 Spider
Location: Lebanon, Oregon

Re: Troubleshooting/Pinout of 95 A alternator??

Post by tartan18 »

A loose exciter bulb was the problem. After cleaning the terminal, applying dielectric grease and re-installing everything is now working as it should. Thank God :lol:
Jim MacKenzie
1975 Fiat Spider
Finest Italian Automotive Technology
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