Just bought a Spider!

[OffThaHorse]

Hello fellow enthusiasts!

My name is Martin.

Tonight i will be picking up the first FIAT i have ever owned, as well as the first car older than myself.
Let me give you some background info on myself. First and foremost, I LOVE cars. I love hotrods, i love lowriders, I love roadsters,i love luxo-barges, i love trucks, i can appreciate the work that goes into some DONKS.

I currently own a 1989 Cadillac Allanté which incidentally, is also a Pininfarina design/build. I love my Allanté but in typical italian car fashion something ALWAYS needs fixing on it. Nevertheless I LOVE this car and would not trade or sell it (especially since i just spent over a month refinishing the interior...does it show?)




A couple of days ago, my GF bought a 2012 Fiat 500c Lounge. I jumped on craigslist because im always of the mindset that one can never have too many spare parts. I typed in fiat and came across this little number:














The seller was asking $300!

I have now told him i will be picking it up tonight but i also wanted to research some things...As you can see there are many rust areas. I have now found out that rust came standard on these cars so i am no longer surprised. the driver floor board is pretty much rusted out as you can see in the pic. Also, it looks as if someone attempted bodywork and didnt do such a great job.

The interior itself looks to be in decent shape.

The biggest hindrances are as follows:
Owner says he lost the title. will apply for a duplicate then sign over to me
Owner says the car ran before the starter went out. new starter is included with car (along with manual)
Owner says keys were lost.

This somewhat raises a red flag. He says he rebuilt the valve train to get it running, but i have no way to verify that because the starter is bad. even if i took the initiative and replaced the starter for him before buying, he has no keys for it.
Also, he says that the engine has to be pulled to change the starter?

The guy DID seem like a stand up guy, so i dont want to imply that i think he's lying. I do also want to protect myself. If i were to blindly buy this car, what are the chances of recouping the cost of the car if it goes from bad to worse?

If i go through with it, please bear with me. I love to learn but i learn best by asking a ton of questions.
I will however, promise to contribute in the form of TOO MANY pictures detailing every process I learn for future members.


Also
I am buying this car with the intention of getting it road ready and giving it to my younger (17 soon 18) brother to use for work and college. It will remain my car, but i already have a luxo-roadster that is always gonna be first in my mind . My younger brother will be helping with the refresh/restore.

[blurple124]

First of all, welcome, and congrats on your (soon to be) purchase. That looks to be a late '78 or a 79, am I right?

Second: You are in the right place to get questions answered; this site is like the library of congress for these cars.

Third: For $300, if you find you are in over your head, you could easily part that car out and probably profit from it, so don't worry about that.

Lastly: You DO NOT need to remove the engine to change the starter At the most, you can remove the carb and intake manifold and pull it right out the top. If you do it right, you shouldn't have to take anything apart at tall. Do a search on this site for "starter" and you will find more than enough info on it.


Good luck, and I hope the car works out!

[OffThaHorse]

First of all, welcome, and congrats on your (soon to be) purchase. That looks to be a late '78 or a 79, am I right?

Second: You are in the right place to get questions answered; this site is like the library of congress for these cars.

Third: For $300, if you find you are in over your head, you could easily part that car out and probably profit from it, so don't worry about that.

Lastly: You DO NOT need to remove the engine to change the starter At the most, you can remove the carb and intake manifold and pull it right out the top. If you do it right, you shouldn't have to take anything apart at tall. Do a search on this site for "starter" and you will find more than enough info on it.


Good luck, and I hope the car works out!

Yes! its listed as a 78. i dont know enough about these cars to know the subtle differences between years (yet).

Show me a 50's-60's impala and i can name the year just by looking at a square foot of the car!



The seller just accepted my offer of $200 A window switch for my allante costs more than that.

Im just gonna have it towed home and then dig in this weekend.

Thanks for the reassurance. As a plus side, the car comes with a manual. Unfortunately, its an autozone/advance auto type manual but its better than no manual at all.

[baltobernie]

Hello and Welcome!

"Ran When Parked" has become an ubiquitous phrase used by owners of scrap cars. A couple hundred bucks is the going rate for non-running, no-paperwork Spiders. We get them donated frequently to our club.

First order of business is to determine what you need in NC to obtain a title and register the car. Next, Search this great forum for buying and inspection tips. There are some really frugal Fiatsi who hang out here, but you can expect to spend $1000 at a minimum to get this car up and running, IF it has no serious or fatal conditions. Manuals can be found online and are recommended if you intend to repair this car. But please, don't go ordering parts, buying tires and starting bodywork until you thoroughly evaluate the car's condition. If you're near W/S, there's a terrific member who can help you perform this task.

[OffThaHorse]

Oh i forgot to mention and the ad didnt mention that second gear is gone.

I'm not near W/S unfortunately. probably about 2 hours away.

How often are vehicles like this in scrap yards? how often does the trans. go out? (in other words, if i find one at a scrap yard, what are the chances that the trans will be good).

I fully understand money will be poured into this car. At first i weighed the options, buy this car for cheap and fix it up, or spend a couple of grand and get one thats already right?

My decision to buy this was based on the fact that i wouldnt spend a couple of grand on a spider otherwise (no offense to the spider, just wasnt really hankerin for another car at the moment). Also due to the fact that i can stomach spending money over a period of time better than all at once. Also, i love projects (not nightmares though lol)

So, i know about the title, keys, transmission and floorpan being rusted out. what else can i easily check that would make it a definite deal breaker?

On the positive side, the seller was in the process of replacing the brakes (sticky caliper?) He said all but one wheel are done, pads calipers and im guessing rotors

[OffThaHorse]

wait a minute i just realized its a 5 speed lol DUH!

does the key need to be forward for the steering column to "unlock"?

if not we can simply push start the vehicle to verify that the motor is good.

[fiat124fl]

It's all depends, a couple of thousands you might be able to drive it around if you are lucky. Check shock towers, crossmember...etc. for rust. How long it has been sitting and where is it? \\\\

Since I have built and disassembled so many Spiders, anything like shock tower, crossmember, floor pan is beyond repair, to me only. But if you only have one Spider, and cherish it so much, want to pass it on to the next generation, then you can pour as much money as you want into it.

If you are capable of doing a lot of things yourself, definitely make a huge difference money-wise. So far, from what I can tell, you need to be a welder and body man and mechanic. You do not see this kind of car as often as a Ford Escort in the junk yard, this place may be the best place for used parts, and there are many sites for new and aftermarket parts.

Btw, if you need replacement floor pan, I've got it.

wait a minute i just realized its a 5 speed lol DUH!

does the key need to be forward for the steering column to "unlock"?

if not we can simply push start the vehicle to verify that the motor is good.

[fiat124fl]

Odd thing is, the doors are 2000 style, but the tail lights are 124 style. The doors are probably replacement.

[azruss]

lots of indicators that it could be a money pit. As mentioned, check out the structural rust issues first. check the cross member (motor bolts to it and it bolts to the unibody on both sides) the issues can be stress cracks at the bolt points in the unibody as well as shade tree repairs to the studs that hold the lower a-arms. Check the front and rear shock housing for rust. The fronts are very prone to rust and if they are badly corroded, you have your first kill shot. The floorboards arent a big deal as they can be cut out and replaced, pop rivet new sheetmetal over the top, or fiberglass over the Transmission is your next worry. This is the Achilles heel of these cars. Most of the time, the popping out of gear is related to the shifting fork pads. If it has been driving alot with this condition, it will eat expensive tranny parts. The trannies are interchangable within a year or so each way, so you should be able to find something out there.
Yes, you need the key to unlock the steering wheel. You also need the key to pull the lock out of the car.
If you can find a big open field, you could pull start the car to see if it runs and stops.
On a positive note, it looks like the tail lights, side markers are in great shape compared to the rest of the car, so it looks like someone put some effort into the car.
Still, if you are trying to get the thing operational and tidied up for under a grand, dont think it will happen unless all the stars are perfectly aligned.

[OffThaHorse]

It's all depends, a couple of thousands you might be able to drive it around if you are lucky. Check shock towers, crossmember...etc. for rust. How long it has been sitting and where is it? \\\\

lCheck the front and rear shock housing for rust. The fronts are very prone to rust and if they are badly corroded, you have your first kill shot.

What does a good shock tower vs bad shock tower look like? Again I've never dealt with a Fiat or anything rust prone. I got very lucky with my Allanté. not a spot of rust anywhere! Not a single fluid leak, unless you count rain leaking into the car. The car had been in an accident though and so none of the panels matched. I still unfortunately spent almost as much on paint as i did on the car.

Since I have built and disassembled so many Spiders, anything like shock tower, crossmember, floor pan is beyond repair, to me only. But if you only have one Spider, and cherish it so much, want to pass it on to the next generation, then you can pour as much money as you want into it.

Its not so much that i cherish it or want to pass it down. Its actually a mixture of excitement for something new/something to do, and wanting to help my little brother have something to drive while at the same time teaching him to not only be able to do his own repairs, but also bring a car from nothing to something. It may be an expensive lesson but i think its a valuable one

If you are capable of doing a lot of things yourself, definitely make a huge difference money-wise. So far, from what I can tell, you need to be a welder and body man and mechanic. You do not see this kind of car as often as a Ford Escort in the junk yard, this place may be the best place for used parts, and there are many sites for new and aftermarket parts.

I'm not a jack of all trades, but I'm always willing to learn. I had never re-dyed a leather interior. I read 100x and then did it. i think it came out pretty good. I had never stained or finished so much as a small chair or table, much less a Nardi wheel. I read 250x and then did it. The scariest part is always when youre in the middle of it and you doubt yourself for that one second, "oh crap, this isnt gonna work!". This was a very scary moment for me

I know "sticking with it" doesnt always guarantee results, but it helps save money most of the time. Im not above taking something to a pro when i KNOW i cant handle it. Also, i have a couple of friends that have body work experience and if the motors on these are any simpler then the engines on "crotch rockets" then im sure my younger brother can help with that.

Btw, if you need replacement floor pan, I've got it.

The floorboards arent a big deal as they can be cut out and replaced, pop rivet new sheetmetal over the top, or fiberglass over

How much for the floor board? (you can email me if you want. granadm 2 at g mail)
Will riveting the floorboard over the old sheetmetal hold up as well as welding it? Obviously id have to do some sealing at the seams to keep the elements out but even then that should be MUCH easier than learning to weld or taking it to a welder lol.

Yes, you need the key to unlock the steering wheel. You also need the key to pull the lock out of the car.
If you can find a big open field, you could pull start the car to see if it runs and stops.

As far as the key goes, im mostly concerned with whether or not it will start or if the engine will even attempt to turn over. I just realized i could probably hot wire it to test that. I believe i also read about aftermarket ignition switches failing on a regular basis, and this may be the case. The current owner may not know about this and may have just assumed the starter is bad. I think hotwiring will help prove/disprove this as well.

[OffThaHorse]

Well, I brought it home today. Soon ill take the steering column to a locksmith to get keys made...


I posted pics of the front shock towers, under car and in the engine bay. Doesnt look TOO bad especially the ingine bay side but i dont know what bad looks like on these cars.

I threw the bumpers away, should i have kept them?

[blurple124]

In order for the entire picture to be viewable, it will have to be shrunk to a width less than 700 pixels.

[dmwhiteoak]

You should have kept the bumpers. May could have traded them for some parts you need.

[OffThaHorse]

You can actually right click on the image and open in new window to see the full pic. I can also rescale if necessary.

I didnt think anyone actually liked the bumpers...they had some rust on them anyway.

Im going to convince myself that noone would have wanted them and that they'll be useless...

[baltobernie]

I posted pics of the front shock towers, under car and in the engine bay. Doesn't look TOO bad especially the engine bay side but i don't know what bad looks like on these cars.

Actually, it does look pretty bad, at least what I can see. The A-arm bushings are shot (which usually means replacing the entire arm), the hard brake line is rusted, and the brake flex line is cracked. If this is indicative of the rest of the car, you're looking at a major expenditure to get this car running safely (salvage or rebuilt transmission notwithstanding).

The front shock towers are comprised of several layers of steel. Moisture gets trapped inside these layers, and the tower rusts from both the inside and outside. You need to get an ice pick or screwdriver and dig under the dirt, undercoating and other crap, and look for evidence of perforation. As I suggested earlier, this needs to be done BEFORE you give the seller any money. Here are some photos previously posted on Spider.com.









You can Search this topic and "cross-member rust". I love to see other Spiders on the road, and I hate to see them crushed, but I hate it even more when a well-meaning fellow starts spending hundreds ... then, thousands of dollars on a project which is ultimately abandoned. Shock towers can be replaced. Cross-members can be replaced. So can transmissions, engines and interiors. But a prudent person does their best to estimate the costs of repairing/replacing the things he knows are wrong with the car, recognizing that there will be plenty of items he hasn't discovered or budgeted for.