bumperettes why are they so expensive?

[maytag]

Hey, knock yourself out! Like I said: make some up! That'd be grand! And once you do, you can add it to your list of products / services that you do for free, with no charge or catches, like your web design.

I'd love to hear more about this web design by the way. Will you design my website for free? No charge? No catch? Or do I really have to buy something, or sign a contract? or allow 3rd party advertising? is your "team" unpaid? They're all there just for fun?

I once had a customer who sounded a lot like the last part of your last post. He would get my invoice, and then pay whatever he thought it was worth. No, really. He did. He short-paid EVERY single invoice. When it was clear that he was not to be reasoned with, I fired him as a customer. Told him I wouldn't sell to him ever again. Why would I? If he was so sure he could get my goods / services cheaper elsewhere, then he ought to try doing it. It took him a year to come back to me and beg me to sell to him again. Turns out that he really COULD NOT get what I was providing for the same price, no matter how much he demanded it from companies charging less.

The arrogance involved in you telling me what pipe should cost astounds me. or seats, or tops, or.. bumperettes. It sounds like you may be qualified to tell us what web design should cost. and now we know that it should be free.

Dood, I'm all about hearing your opinion on this.... and I'm also all about telling you my own. But I hardly think this "text discussion" has value.

So, what do you think a carbon fiber hood should be worth?

[maytag]

oh yeah..Im totally cheap..

really?
hadn't gussed it.
But this conversation is not about "cheap". It's about you deciding that you know better than anybody else what a product should be worth. That's much different than just trying to save a buck.

[azygoustoyou]

Hi guys,
It would be great to get these started. I can hear the enthusiasm out there. I think if someone was to make these. They definitely wouldn't be selling them for a hundred bucks. The reason the abarth bumperettes don't fit that great is because whoever mocked them up tried to get them to work on the cars with the least amount of molds. When I shaped the ones I have. I found that you really need four molds to make a really good fitting set. It took awhile just to get one to fit. I'm pretty picky though. This is something I have to complete to get my car on the road hopefully this summer. I'll document what I'll do to get them complete.Only thing is. Where I'll be installing my bumperettes won't be where the bumper holes are. I need the rear bumper hole to install my reverse lights. And on the front, my bumberettes will be closer to the center of the car due to the frenched in fog lights I installed. Like Mark says. These are only for looks. if some of you decide to make some, please document for us. Boy this snow suc%s!

[SpiderJim]

I read all of your post with great interest. What is a product worth. Well some of you may know or not that I have been working on making badges and wheel inserts for our beloved cars. Just the wheel insert caps alone have burned up about 200 plus hours of my time and well over $1000 in materials and expenses just to get to a pre-production stage with a reliable production process. Why is this so expensive you may think as they are so tiny?. I had an option to just go the the standard route and do a printed sheet with a dome resin finish. That option cost me 3 hours in design time and about a nickel per cap to produce and I could charge maybe $20+ per set of four with a huge profit. Well, I just think they looked like everyone else's pretty but not unique.

My caps are hand made with a textured back ground with raised lettering and are custom made to order in a wide color range. I charge $60 plus shipping for a set of four. I can produce one set per day. Well is this expensive at three times the price of a printed domed cap that I could make two hundred per hour??? I think it is a deal considering my time as an individual trying to make something special for our vehicles and a unique look. The end result is that I may make about $5hr for my time doing this compared to when I was working I made $120 plus an hour with stock options & bonuses. Thank God I'm retired and can spend my time helping fellow enthusiast on the cheap. The materials in those bumpers to achieve quality and safety is expensive and requires a correct manufacturing process. Also, how many of these are sold per year? The golden rule is the more you can sell the cheaper the cost of materials and labor. I think these are priced right if the quality is okay.

[azygoustoyou]

Hi Jim,
Can you show us a pic of what you have achieved and the designs?

[SpiderJim]

Hi Jim,
Can you show us a pic of what you have achieved and the designs?

Busy blocking out my spider to have it in paint next week before the rains start again but will try and shoot some tomorrow and post.

[SpiderJim]

Here you go Brady several examples that are a direct replacement for the original Rota wheel insert. To install you simply push a dowel or similar through the sticker (a hole underneath the sticker) on the back of the original then pop these in its place. Sorry about the crappy images but my good camera died... Sad face!
--- > Go here for different color arrangements and also the crown badges and other stuff and also what they look like on the wheel..... http://gallery.me.com/jamesaellis1#100170

white on yellow on silver insert

Complete set of four shown on gun metal cap

Aluminized Insert on gun metal cap

This is a hood/trunk badge silver on silver but out of focus.. looks really cool and I may use this on my new ivory pearl paint job

[launieg]

Jim, I appreciated your post. I've been following this thread with interest, because I've been self-employed for many years (possibly most of my long working life) and I know how easy it is for people (my customers) to think they are paying too much. It never fails to amaze me that even some of my (cheap) friends do not realize the actual cost of producing an item or service. They seem to think people should work for minimum wage so that they can buy stuff at what they think is the "fair price", and they can't fathom why anyone should have to charge "so much."

On the other hand, I can also empathize with them. I usually feel I can do things cheaper for myself (rather than buying a service or item), and once in a while I do, but the reality is that I almost ALWAYS fail to account for my actual time spent DIY and/or the true quality of the finished work or item. If I was diligent and honest in accounting for my time and costs, it would almost always have been cheaper to get a pro and pay the going rate or buy the quality product and pay the true value - much higher than I would have guessed!

In summary, I'm sure we build stuff and DIY because we either love the work and/or the satisfaction, but if we tried to make a business of any of it, we'd be forced to charge those same "outrageous prices" that most people love to complain about. Been there and done that.

[narfire]

Launie... you took the words out of my mouth !! Can't remember the last time I had a regular paycheque.. Late 80's?

[pooldoctorstl]

Anyone here into boats? A 26' runabout from Sea Ray will run about $65,000. A fiberglass shell popped out of a mold, an engine, outdrive, vinyl seats, and wiring. Then compare it to a $35,000 car. The car has a much superior unibody system, air bags, leather seats, A/C, power steering, ABS system, power windows and locks, true computer control system for almost everything, clearcoat paint, aluminim wheels, etc, etc, etc. Pound for pound the boat is WAY MORE expensive than the car. Hell, it doesn't even compare to an $8,000 Kia. Why?....Because they make 500 of the cars a day on a robotic assembly line, and about 10 of the boats, mostly hand built. It's called economies of scale. If they sold 100 sets of bumperettes a day at Wal Mart and made them on a high speed line in China like they do the rest of the chrome plated go-fasters they sell there for 12 bucks, they would be cheaper.

I get the same thing about the concrete pools I build. $60,000 sounds like a lot of money if you only consider the $5,000 of concrete that goes in the hole. But I can tell you that I am not retiring anytime soon. My workers comp insurance alone is $30,000 a year.

Hey, this is America, if you can make them better and sell them for less...GO FOR IT! I'll be your first customer.

[84pininfarinablack]

wow 32 replies to my post.. Maytag take the stick out of your butt we are having a conversation here.. If you dont like it dont participate. Your just being rude and no I wont build a site for you as you are rude. For your information yes it is free ten pages . links logos background shopping carts.. the works.. no flash no adult stuff. You have to pay for your own hosting which is $5 month. Domain is free. Im sure Maytag will say arrrhhhhgggg arrrrhhggg rip off scam or whatever. Its not.
Im building a nice fiat site right now and ill show it off once completed. Maytag im sorry someone didnt pay their bill.. that has nothing to do with me nor do I know the guy. Im sorry it bothers you that I dont think bumperettes are ultra valuable.
No detail, no engraving, no moving parts, only 2 parts one of which is a bolt. The other being a very small rubber block.
Cant sell me on the mechanics of it or the fine detail.. sorry im not biting . You buy yourself a set..

As for the custom artwork required for the emblems.. Im right with you. they are artistic, time consuming, much detail in the work and skill. It should cost alot as it cost alot to produce as you mentioned. The cost may come down as you streamline your production but custom hand made stuff isnt cheap.

Small square rubber blocks for $100 a piece.. I still dont think so.
Maytag " jack and the beanstalk" was a fictional story.
At what price point would you be skeptical ? $500 / $1000 / $1500
at what point do you say ... dammm those rubber blocks are valuable. I wonder why.?

[84pininfarinablack]

sea ray comparison.

I bought my 18" sea ray with 150 outboard for $20k
My parents bought a 30" sea ray for 110k

quit a difference in price for those extra 12 feet.
They have a second much bigger engine.
2 expensive props.
plus all the extra furniture.. beds. toilets. showers. kitchen sink, bunk beds. tvs. dvd. curtains. windows. hatches.
That extra 12 feet gets an extra 25 expensive features.
and an extra motor.
and have a circuit board like a house.
air conditioning..
plumbing. / toilet and running water.
im not going to mention the loran , depth finder. and deep sea navigation equipment that comes standard on the 30' sea rays. My 18 has speedometer and compass.. forwards and backwards.. vs a good 50 features on dash of bigger boat.

Hopefully i helped justify the extra costs of the big boat.. needless to say more fiberglass. bigger molds. and lower sales / per mold..

[maytag]

Maytag take the stick out of your butt we are having a conversation here.. If you dont like it dont participate.

but I DO like it. That's why I'm participating. I find your opinion on the matter to be inane, ill-though-out and overall insensitive to some of the forum members here who build and sell product like what you're whining about. And yes, it just sounds like whining.

For your information yes it is free ten pages . You have to pay for your own hosting which is $5 month.

So it's not really free then? I'd never say it's a rip-off. But remember that you used it being "free" as a way to show us that bumperettes were too expensive... and now we learn the truth: it's really NOT FREE.

Im sorry it bothers you that I dont think bumperettes are ultra valuable.
No detail, no engraving, no moving parts, only 2 parts one of which is a bolt. The other being a very small rubber block.
Cant sell me on the mechanics of it or the fine detail.. sorry im not biting . You buy yourself a set..

except I don't NEED a set... nor would I whine about how much they are, even if I DID want / need a set. If I were at the place where you are (ie: smarter than everyone else) I would just build a set, and be done with it.


dood; I'll say it again: things cost what they cost. You don't get to decide what that value is. You only get to decide whether you'll pay that or not. But just because you either can't afford it, or you're just too dang cheap to pay for it, doesn't mean that somebody is trying to rip you off!

For me, I won't get my concrete tools out for less than $500. Because my custom stamped / colored concrete is worth that much. Even if all I'm doing is some broom-finish sidewalk. I know what I'm worth, I know how much I don;t want to do it anymore, and that's what it takes to get those tools off the shelf. Does that mean I'm ripping somebody off? Nope. They get to decide. but that's my price.

And I still say that if you are so sure they can be made cheaper: show me. Find somebody selling 'em cheaper. Or do it yourself.
Prove yourself right.... instead of proving yourself ignorant of the way the marketplace works, the way you have been.

[ga.spyder]

You two are at risk of being sent to the corner and missing out on recess!

[So Cal Mark]

at least they're not pulling pranks on each other. I've been trying to sit this one out, but.....
Much of my stuff is expensive; it's high end stuff. I'm aware it's priced most owners out of the picture. I get inquiries all of the time about my exhaust and whether I'll give a huge discount. Callers are disappointed when I turn them down. My exhaust is quite expensive to build, and there isn't much margin in it. If I wanted to sell a cheap header, I'd handle those Pacesetter pieces of crap. I encourage people to build their custom header/exhaust when they tell me how easy it is.

I look at it this way, you can get a burger at McDonalds for about 69 cents, or you can go to IN-N-OUT for $2.50. They're both burgers, so is In-N-Out ripping you off?

I doubt there will any sort of agreement in this thread, it comes down to viewpoints that will never converge.