titanium retainers

[Zmatt]

Thanks for the info. I'll see what our guys have to say, and i'll also ask the megasquirt community what they think. BTW that lancia branded TC (i'm guessing it's in a scorpion) is just beautiful.

[Daniel]

Yes that Lancia TC is in a Scorpion one of the guys out here in SoCal
I built this Engine for Steve Jennes's Scorpion and kind of copied the look

[fiatfactory]

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[Zmatt]

fair enough, you make good points. What do I need to do to build euro spec? I know higher comp pistons are made by several different sources here, how high do I need it to be? 9:1? 10:1?

[Daniel]

1585cc pushrod engined 131's..

Hey Steve

Is this engine 84mm Bore size and where some of the vendors are getting the Pistons from that
are offered to us with the large domed config ?

Also
Zmatt hasn't stated what his goals were as far as a engine is concerned maybe he is looking for big HP numbers
but like most people on here building a Race engine is not something they intend to do . Although i agree
with you about bumping up the static compression will be good for the engine if he is running a 2 L with a stock head
(8 to 1) if he were to run a 1800 head on a 2L Engine with some mild cams and dual 40 IDFs or do the FI manifold
with MS his power would be improved over the stock configuration a good deal . Also not to costly as opposed to
going all out, I mean getting into ITBs, injectors, an ECU, FI Fuel Pump and all the little goodies can
cost more then a some Fiats are even worst ($2,000 to $2,500 depending on what brand of parts chosen .
If they select a Motec or Electromotive for engine management cost starts to climb even more .
I'm not trying discourage anyone from shooting for the stars in HP i like to have fun with these cars to just
saying most people will not invest that kind of cash on a car that is worth 5 to 6 k in really good condition .

A Static Compression of 10 to 1 or more is going to require Gas that is higher in octane then readily accessible
unless your close to a race shop that carries higher octane gas or airport . A good increase is all most people on
here seem to be interested in, going all out is for some guys here but not for the masses and i'm not trying
to speak for anyone else by saying all this just what i've noticed after being a member for more then a few years .

I do like all the fun conversations and experiences that people share on there endeavors and keep a open mind
about learning new mods so please don't take this as if i am against info being shared it's cool that people do so
and hope more data gets out by these types of posts and friendly talks on here .

Take care

[fiatfactory]

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[BEEK]

idealy in a perfect world, a flat top piston with a hemi head with a moderatly high dynamic compression racio, makes the most power. the main reason high compression pistons are used is to make up for poor dynamic compression, add a larger cam and you will have to up the static compression to maximise the dynamic compression, as the longer cam timing kills dynamic compression.

[fiatfactory]

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[Daniel]

1 part of the issues that your talking about is the low octane Gas that he has no choice but to run, Southern
California has a special blend for pollution controlled fuel in one of the largest Car Capitols of the World .
87 Octane would make pretty much any engine with 10.9 to 1 CR have detonation issues regardless of the cams ! ! !
but your right about the Squish / quench clearance i agree with you . Fiat TCs aren't the best design by a long shot as
a matter of fact many 4 bangers with the same displacement and era are able to produce more power then a FIAT TC
when fully raced out . The reason for this is the poorly designed combustion chambers . Alfa's 1750 & 2000 are just as
bad or limited but in other ways There Combustion Chamber sucks as well ! (now the hate mail starts from Alfa
owners ) this is from a lack of understanding physics involved during the cycles of the intake charge, compression
and discharge back then the ideal of a Hemi Engine was to have the Valves Face each other (Intake>>>>>To>>>>>>Exhaust) Cross flow Pattern which in theory would make sense if the RPM was High enough MAYBE <> .

Dealing with the current designs and Information available now seems to disagree with this theory, looking at
Honda, BMW and Ferrari's (pentroof-type) Combustion Chambers just a decade ago also makes a strong point that
this wasn't such a good ideal and by todays designs even more so ! But i do realize we are comparing Apples to Oranges
at this point 1960s technology vs 90s to 2010 engine design has come a long ways since .

Ferrari Head late 70s early 80s design

Honda
S2000 1990s Design with after market Titanium Valves just to kind of go with the theme here ^

[MNspiderman]

I had titanuim retainers before. They worked just fine. The dentist took them out and everything turned out great

[Daniel]

I had titanuim retainers before. They worked just fine. The dentist took them out and everything turned out great

Did you see higher RPMs while chewing food with the TI Retainers ?

[BEEK]

an observation that i made on a 1608 i had with 9.8-1 pistons, the pistons stuck out of the block about 10 thous. while running i never noticed any problems, the motor ran actualy the best i ever had for a 1608, won many races. but in teardown i noticed that the pistons actualy contacted the head. never a problem, never a knock, never hurt the ring lands. but it was a ever so light contact. ever sence that ive always decked my blocks to get the same "quench' area. this process has worked well using stock parts.

[Zmatt]

So right now I have at my disposal 3 engines. two 1800s and one 2000. one of the 1800s (from a '77 I think) is i the car now. The second 1800 hasn't moved in 20 years, so it needs a rebuild, but the head has a port and polish. The 2000 came out of a '79 and is of unknown condition. The 2000 came with a 4-2-1 header as well. So I'm guessing given what I have the best plan is once I make sure the 2000 block is sound, have the ported head restored and mate them. put in higher comp pistons, give it the 4-2-1 and then get the FI gear off of another member and replace the management with megasquirt and pull EDIS off of an old ford. megasquirt runs about $400 last time I checked, I'm not sure what full FI gear including the intake manifold goes for, and the head and block should probably be looked over and have some work done. EDIS is cheap from the junkyard and if Miller's Mule has a crank trigger for $30. So I'm assuming once it's all said and done we are looking at maybe $1500?

[fiatfactory]

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[Zmatt]

This is the local engine shop: http://www.kennedyperformance.com/
the do pretty good work, but I don't think they have done a Fiat TC before. A lot of those terms are french to me, what work should I have done? Obviously a good cleaning and valve job, maybe new bearings? I don't expect to have this done immediately, I'm autoX'ing the car in stock form more or less this next spring so I will have plenty of time to have the engine done.

The best pump gas we can get here runs about 93 octane and I don't want to have to run it one race gas if I can avoid it. I know Honda had up to 11:1 compression on some of their hotter motors but that's some crazy stuff and I like my torque too much to worry about that. I also understand that without any form of VVT I wont have the silly power bands they have. burning rubber is more important to me anyways.

And what do you mean by a lumpy cam? Do you mean a really hot one, like race spec?