Hacked up '80 Spider

[Brianv5]

I've recently come in possession of a very salvageable but poorly modified FI 1980 Spider 2000. I've never worked on Fiats but am very mechanically inclined, worked on many cars, trucks, marine diesels, etc... so troubleshooting, drawings, and head scratchers are something I am familiar with but this car is making me question myself. The car seems mostly original with the exception of the radiator and there is not a set of keys for it. I took the ign switch apart so I can turn the internal with my finger. I plan to put a push button when I get the kinks ironed out.

Right off the bat I go thru the fuel system as it is evident the car has been sitting and the PO purchased a fuel pump for a carbureted engine so; New lines, pump, filter, regulator (didn't touch from the rail to the injectors). Couldn't get the pump to come on thru the relay so began the FI troubleshooting guide I was referred to by other posts. Wasn't convinced the dual relay was good so I replaced it. Now with new relay still nothing at the pump and one step further no power or pulse at the injectors. I have confirmed that the lever in the MAF is moving AND the car has run on starting fluid.

Here's where it gets really fun. I have no Brown/White wire. I have two White/Black, but no Brown/white off the relay or under the dash. I have three fuses beneath the dash one for the Cig lighter, the other has a funky looking fuse in it, seems good, then the other which I interpret as the relay wire White/Black had the red 16A I believe? burnt out, but I replaced it with the same style fuse. Still nothing. I can hear and feel the relay click when I start but I believe that is just power from the thicker brown wire. Move to the fuse panel, wire colorings don't match the drawings I've seen on many of the ones available online. Could there perhaps be another set of drawings that speak to what I have? Below is a link to pictures

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ouhpcwfw5at4 ... ABSra?dl=0

[spider2081]

I'm not sure what you are using for reference material. I would recommend you join Mirafiori.com access their library and down load Fiat publication "Spider 2000 electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981".

It will explain the circuits operations and part locations.

Things I notice from your photos: The coolant "T" that connects to the head between the cam gears appears to be installed upside down. The side that connects to the thermostat hose has a smaller opening that the side that connects to the top driver side radiator outlet. Also the the temperature sensor is on the bottom of the "T: and the bleed nut should be on the top.

On top of the charcoal canister there appears to be a brown 2 pin connector. I believe it should be connected to the thermal time sensor in the bottom of the intake manifold. This needs to be connected for the cold start valve to open when starting the engine.

The thing that looks like a strange fuse is a resistor that is needed for the coolant temperature gauge.

[davidbruce]

Brian, everything 2081 said is spot on. FWIW legend has it that Fiat didn't always follow their wiring colors to the letter. My fuel pump circuit had a brown/white wire to the red in line fuse with a orange/yellow wire to 88y on the relay. I presume you checked continuity through the red fuse holder after replacing the fuse as the internal contacts tend to corrode over time. Even though the afm door is moving sometimes the track where the contacts ride become flaky. I believe also that a disconnected or poor connection at the thermo switch in the coolant tee will cause a no start situation. As an aside if your ignition switch is a replacement its wiring will be different. Colors should be the same but different locations on switch. Aftermarket ones I've seen have roman numerals on the face. I have several different wiring diagrams for your year as well as FI guides. If you want to pm me your email I would be happy to forward them.

[18Fiatsandcounting]

Brian, one more item that I noticed in your photos: The upper radiator hoses are pretty swollen, and this often leads to a burst hose. I suggest replacing all the radiator hoses, if you haven't considered that already.

-Bryan

[Brianv5]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I have verified continuity of the inline fuse and plugged in the brown connector under the intake plenum. I would have never found that so thanks again! The connector at the Tee is a little rough, I cleaned up best I could but the housing itself is broken. Very brittle this old plastic. It is connected though and should be performing its intended purpose. About my ignition switch. I did some more digging and realized that at one point there was a short that made a burn in the plug. No wires are there presently and all that are on the drawing are accounted for on the switch and the plug. My blue/red wire is kept outside of the plug which looks like its been like that from the beginning. I am really hoping that it isn't my ECU but at this point I'm not sure what else to test.

[davidbruce]

Hi Brian, Not sure where you are located but those Bosch 2 pin connectors are fairly common and available at the usual vendors, Rockauto etc. The Fiat wiring to the ignition switch is famous for overheating due to all of the electrical load going through the switch. Search brown wire fix but the best solution is to add relays to the headlights, wipers and starter. I sent you a FI trouble shooting guide. Hopefully that will help.

[Brianv5]

Those manuals are my new bible! Thank you for emailing them to me David. I’ve gone thru the infamous FI troubleshooting guide and so far it has led me to 14b. Check input voltage to control relay. I am using a meter vs a test light but I am not getting anything across 86c and 85 with the ignition on. I am prompted to check wiring between relay and ignition switch but not exactly where I should be looking. From the relay the harness is pushed up into the dash, seemingly well protected. Then comes out the the driver side only to turn into a nest of wires. None seem to have any breaks or damage. Should I be looking at ground from this test? The fuse panel looks like it can use a good cleaning, would I benefit from that? I have checked and verified continuity across my inline fuse in the holder. Is there perhaps something with the ignition switch that could be failing? Just when I think I’ve exhausted my options someone usually has a great suggestion. I am very thankful for the help given so far. We must be close to having a runner!

[davidbruce]

Well i'm no expert but the wires to check are the darker ones in diagram 10. So check continuity between pin 28 in the ecu plug and the 85 end of the wire. Check for power to 86c. I would start at the ignition switch(15/54 pink) should have power with the key on. Then check for power at A on the fuse box and then at the 86c end of what ever color wire feeds 86c. Good luck.

[davidbruce]

Looking closer at the pics you posted. In pic 3, the wires at the 1 position(green/black and pink?) look pretty corroded. Is there power there with the key on. Pink should be from 15 on ign switch and green black to 86c instead of pink/black. Have you ever had this car running?

[spider2081]

Most of the photos you have posted look to me to be stock Fiat wiring. In my mind "hacked wiring would have cut and or spliced wires through out the car. The only photo that appears to show non stock wiring is the one of the radiator with the blue wires sitting on top/front of radiator. I think is is probably for the fan.
1980 was a transition year from carburetor to fuel injection so the wire colors that seem to be more standard after 1981 may not be present in the 1980. I found tracing the wires and then labeling them with the color that is in the wire diagram helps in troubleshooting.
I think for circuit description, troubleshooting and diagrams Fiat publication "Spider 2000 Electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981" Is one of the best publications any auto manufacturer produced.

The Sipea ignition switch you have is not the most common but fairly reliable. I called local Locksmiths and chatted. Found one that thought they could make a key. I removed the entire steering column and brought it to them and for around $65 they made me 2 sets of keys that worked perfectly. Sadly they are no longer in business. You might be able to find one in your area.
I would start with getting the ignition switch working properly before trying to attack other issues with your car.

[Brianv5]

Pretty good signs of progress. Thank you once again as I have deduced the pink wire from the ignition not energized when the switch is on start. Leads me to believe it is a faulty ignition switch since it is correctly connected to ‘15’ on the switch. I put a jumper from the brown wire on the ignition to fuse A or my pink and green/black wire, energizing the control relay, and and received pulse at the injectors. Got a good spudder out of the engine so there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Next is fresh oil change to prepare for a good start and run sequence. I will keep everyone updated. Thanks again!

[Brianv5]

Most of the photos you have posted look to me to be stock Fiat wiring. In my mind "hacked wiring would have cut and or spliced wires through out the car. The only photo that appears to show non stock wiring is the one of the radiator with the blue wires sitting on top/front of radiator. I think is is probably for the fan.
1980 was a transition year from carburetor to fuel injection so the wire colors that seem to be more standard after 1981 may not be present in the 1980. I found tracing the wires and then labeling them with the color that is in the wire diagram helps in troubleshooting.
I think for circuit description, troubleshooting and diagrams Fiat publication "Spider 2000 Electrical Diagnostic Manual 1980-1981" Is one of the best publications any auto manufacturer produced.

The Sipea ignition switch you have is not the most common but fairly reliable. I called local Locksmiths and chatted. Found one that thought they could make a key. I removed the entire steering column and brought it to them and for around $65 they made me 2 sets of keys that worked perfectly. Sadly they are no longer in business. You might be able to find one in your area.
I would start with getting the ignition switch working properly before trying to attack other issues with your car.

2081, you are correct in that a lot of the factory wiring is still intact. I suppose I misjudged the level of non factory work from my first impression. There was an attempt at a push button start, the radiator fan was switched, and there was an attempt to hardwire the fuel pump. Also the “brown wire fix” among other sloppy splices. That I’ll eventually need to finish working thru. All in all I seem to be on the right track to being able to use the factory wiring and equipment with little modification. Win-win. Unfortunately for the ignition cyl, It’s been drilled out so replacement is necessary. Poor car had a rough life. Hope I can breathe some new into it

[spider2081]

private message sent to you on this site

[spider2081]

received your PM and resent mine I don't know if I forgot to hit submit or what. hopefully you get this one

[Brianv5]

We have a runner! The ignition switch is indeed the problem. With a jumper I was able to get it started. It runs and idles beautifully. Will now be spending my time getting this little fiat to look as nice as it runs.
Thank you everyone for your feedback.