Canuck wrenching

[phaetn]

This is how we wrench in Canada -- with snow outside!



Finally had a couple of degree above freezing weather so I could drain and refill my 20W50 Castrol GTX oil without it being too slow running. By the end there were actually wisps/hairs of oil from the container as little strands would semi-solidify.

Anyhow, I had to change the head gasket, YET AGAIN, because I started to burn coolant in around November or so and I just parked it as I knew my season was over as work was too busy for me to wrench then to save a month of the season. I still started it a few times in the garage and changed the intake manifold but since it was still leaking I knew it had to be the head. Then it became too cold and Christmas with the family took precedence, etc.

I'm hoping I didn't do any damage to the main bearing. The gasket became so bad after a few restarts that coolant literally poured down through the head into the cylinder and filled it (it was creepy dipping my inspection camera into liquid like that). Given enough time, the coolant then leaked down past the ring and its gap and started filling the oil pan. That's why I had to drain and refill everything, but I had to wait for the right time and weather.

Here's the old gasket:


I had the head recently machined and decked so I don't think that's the issue. I had blown head gasket with an older head, too. This is also the second intake I'm using to eliminate that as a possibility.

I've put on Allison's MLS (multi-layer steel) gasket with his stud kit for more clamping force so I hope it finally does the trick.

Worst case scenario would be a crack in the block, but I don't think that that would be an issue as it's fine and leak-free for a while and then the problem only shows up after a few months. I think it's a sealing issue as I didn't even have to "crack" the gasket to rock the head, it just lifted straight off and then the gasket was super easy to get off too, with no scraping or remnants.

I've had the head off so many times I could probably do it in my sleep. It this doesn't do the trick I'll have to pull the block and see what's up there but that's a big job for the winter. That said, I'd like to do it while I'm not losing driving time...

Cheers,
phaetn

[RRoller123]

We see so much of this, I am wondering if, in many cases, the 500 mile re-torque was missed? Or lubrication and cleaning of the head bolts may be the culprit? We see this so often. Just wondering root cause.

[joelittel]

I feel your pain. I’ve pulled my head more times than I’d like to admit.

Are the MLS gaskets reusable?

[riverdadd]

permatex makes a product that i have used with decent success, its a copper spray that coats the gasket and helps with sealing, adhesion, and temp transfer. it claims to reduce hot spots and fills minor imperfections in block. i have used it in the past and i think it helped. my .02

btw, i have had this can of spray for a few years, part # on my can is 80697 Permatex copper spray-a-gasket. high temp sealant

hope it helps

[DieselSpider]

Second the copper coat its good stuff. You had the head planed but how about the block? It might have a dip in the center that is allowing the fire ring to slip.

[phaetn]

Thanks, folks

The MLS gasket purportedly doesn’t need retorquing, but we’ll see. Mark of Allison’s does say it’s reusable because of the viton(?) coating.

Thanks for the advice re spray. I am using a copper spray (I think it’s Permatex) that’s safe for head gaskets. I sprayed it on both sides of the gasket and even directly on the top of the block itself.

Here’s hoping it works. I might try and fire it up this weekend as it’s supposed to be above freezing again. At least the MLS is metal and hopefully won’t fail in the same way as the stock one.

I haven’t had the block checked. That’s the next step If this doesn’t work, I guess. If I go that far then it’s time for new rings (and avoiding the temptation to get high compression pistons).

Thanks again and cheers,
phaetn

[DieselSpider]

At least do some basic check with a steel ruler. If the ruler shows a dip in the center of the block going across then there is no need to try again with the same head gasket as you will likely need to go up one or two thickness grades or get the block honed.

Some will do it themselves with a big flat honing stone with the block still in the car. Some are amazed at what they see after the first few strokes.

[RRoller123]

If you hone it yourself with the engine in the car, how do you keep the steel honing waste from getting into the cylinders? It seems that the risk of stuffing the cylinders with rags and still having some of the waste get in there is very high?

[spiderdan]

Or you could just drop a rebuilt 2L in it.
I know a guy...

Good luck buddy.
Maybe I'll drop by this weekend for a visit (I'll bring a metal ruler, and some installation fluid/anti-body-freeze)

[DieselSpider]

If you hone it yourself with the engine in the car, how do you keep the steel honing waste from getting into the cylinders? It seems that the risk of stuffing the cylinders with rags and still having some of the waste get in there is very high?

Never done it myself but see that others do swear by it.

[gchocevar]

Have someone check the head for any bows. If your honing the block then you probably are using fine oil. Stuff the cylinders with paper towels or rags. When your are done vacuum each cylinder for any debris left behind.

If you are not racing I wouldn't use anything other than the head gasket . I prescribe to Jon Logan's techniques at Midwest124.
Never reuse a head gasket. Always use 3-step torque technique of 20, 40 then 60 lb-ft. For you Canucks that 3,6 and 8.5 Kgm.

Good luck!
Greg

[phaetn]

Ha, ha! We are odd here and sometimes use imperial and sometimes metric...

Thanks all, - I'm hoping the MLS will do the trick. It's thicker than the stock gasket.

I definitely used more than a 3 step technique. More like 5 or 6.

The MLS (with studs, not the original bolts) is meant to provide better clamping force (lots of discussion of this elsewere) and torqued to 54lb/ft rather than the stock 61. I have the .060 thickness, but one is also available in .080.

We'll see how it goes... Spiderdan, it's all buttoned up (head on and torqued) but I just haven't started it as I only got to changing the oil last weekend. I'm thinking about noon or one tomorrow for the firing up when it's warmest... Give me a call if you're on the way out so I'll make sure I'm around (plans may change with the kids around).

Cheers,
phaetn

[wetminkey]

Same difficulties here in Colorado,...don't ya just LOVE wrenching in the cold!? YUK! But days with temps above freezing are a luxury this time of year.
I've been using Copper Coat for over 40 years,...I highly recommend it.
And I would recommend to never reuse ANY gasket,...certainly not a head gasket. I'm sure you guys agree.
Engine planing and honing I've always found to be best done in a machine shop,...BUT then there's reality, and sometimes ya gotta make do. Best of luck!
Awaiting report of a successful start and run, Todd.

[phaetn]

Yeah, it's a bit of a bummer when your hands go numb just from picking up cold tools.

Update: Ugh. Did a quick start the other day and it was still burning coolant out the pipe. I was a little frustrated, but it's not the end of the world. I decided I should retorque the head just in case, and maybe go a little tighter. The studs call for 54 ft/lbs whereas the original head bolt spec is 61.

Once I let the engine sit overnight I decided to go to 57 ft/lb as a happy medium and was going to start it again. Stud #3 (which really is always the problem area) definitely felt looser than #6 which is directly across. Then as I went to tighten #8 I split the socket. Sigh. It's a 14mm 12 point socket so I had to order others.

I went to start it anyway since I had tightened down the "problem" but had to boost from another car. Didn't have any luck (even though it started the other day) and then smelt acrid burning and saw smoke from the starter area. Going to give it a rest for a bit and wait for warmer weather again.

Looks like I might have to be pulling the head again... I'll get a new gasket and tap the #3 hole again. I'm wondering if it's just shot or if the problem has been with the block all along.

Cheers,
phaetn

[spiderdan]

and saw smoke from the starter area.

Is that a Lucas starter?
Reminds me of...

Electrical Theory- A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke
by Joseph Lucas (Prince of darkness)

All electrical components and wiring harnesses depend on proper circuit functioning, which is the transmission of charged ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. Don't be fooled by scientists and engineers talking about excited electrons and the like. Smoke is the key to all things electrical

We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing. For example, if one places a large copper bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions.

The logic is elementary and inescapable! The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring harness springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works right afterward.

Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some time largely because they regularly released large quantities of smoke from the electrical system.

It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks, and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air and British Intelligence leaks national defence secrets.

Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once again, the logic is clear and inescapable.

Sometimes you may miss the component releasing the smoke that makes your electrical system function correctly, but if you sniff around you can often find the faulty component by the undeniable and telltale smoke smell. Sometimes this is a better indicator than standard electrical tests performed with a volt-ohm meter.

In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the form of smoke provides a clear and logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical components and why they fail.

"A gentleman does not motor about after dark." - Joseph Lucas, 1842-1903