Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
- seabeelt
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- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Went to the Dr. for a check up yesterday. About a 45 minute ride - 90 deg, top down cruising on the highway. burble from the engine and exhaust sounding sweet. Completed my appointment, drove across Providence to Federal hill for some fine Italian wine and dinner at Le Café Dolce, listen to some live jazz and Sinatra improv, start home about 6:30. pulled out on Atwells Ave.- the main thoroughfare in Federal Hill and the car starts sounding like its running on two cylinders and then smoke Jumped out of the car, flames coming from under the hood, popped the release and flames are coming off the rear carb. Grabbed a bottle of water and doused the flames. Obviously car is now not running. Hagerty to the rescue,
but the car is now going to need some "real" work.
The culprit
So much for that foam air filter
Think I might be switching to the lunch boxes... hmmmmm
More importantly I think I will be getting one of those small fire extinguishers to put in the passenger compartment
but the car is now going to need some "real" work.
The culprit
So much for that foam air filter
Think I might be switching to the lunch boxes... hmmmmm
More importantly I think I will be getting one of those small fire extinguishers to put in the passenger compartment
Last edited by seabeelt on Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
oh yeah, those domed foam filters are just asking for trouble. Besides acting as fire fuel that start dropping bits of foam into the carb as they age and dry out
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
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- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Oh man, that is a shame. It sounds like we won't be able to see you at Tutto this year. Good luck with a speedy repair.
Pete
Pete
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Thanks Pete, Yeah, Tutto is probably out. First is to pull the carbs and clean/rebuild as necessary. I'll probably need to replace a couple of other things while Im in there. Cant get to it this weekend but perhaps next. Then of course is the paint. It needs painting anyway, but that's not how I wanted to start the process. I may be driving with a primer hood for a while. at least until winter anyway. Need to pull the plugs tonight and put something in the cylinders to make sure they don't rust from the water that got dumped all over everything.
Thanks Mark, I have a couple different lunch box type filters, one set square and one set oval. My son just scored a turtle back, I may try to talk him out of it.
Thanks Mark, I have a couple different lunch box type filters, one set square and one set oval. My son just scored a turtle back, I may try to talk him out of it.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
- DUCeditor
- Posts: 490
- Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 7:36 am
- Your car is a: 1977 FIAT 124 Sport Spider
- Location: Monadnock Area, New Hampshire USA
- Contact:
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Wow! Bad enough, but could have been so, so much worse!
"More importantly I think I will be getting one of those small fire extinguishers to put in the passenger compartment."
Yeah, we've had one with us for every drive since we got the car. The type rated for all sorts of fires. Sits in the passenger side foot-area well.
Never had to use it. So far.
-don
"More importantly I think I will be getting one of those small fire extinguishers to put in the passenger compartment."
Yeah, we've had one with us for every drive since we got the car. The type rated for all sorts of fires. Sits in the passenger side foot-area well.
Never had to use it. So far.
-don
Italian motorcycles. An Italian car. An Italian wife. What more could a man desire?
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- Posts: 2130
- Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider with Isuzu Turbo Diesel
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Shows why a fire extinguishing hood blanket is a really great idea along with why replacing them as they age or fail is very important.
Glad you got it out before a more devastating loss occurred.
I lost a motor home that caught while on the interstate. Wheel heated up taking out a nearby fuel injection line and when gasoline shot out at 70 psi on the red hot wheel along with the exhaust manifold that was the end if it. Wife, two daughters, dog and cat just barely got out once I was able to stop the vehicle which had also lost its brakes. Panic drive shaft brake had no in-between setting so it was not a good idea to flip it on with the chance of loosing control while on fire until the major speed was bled off. Everything was so hot that the dry chem fire extinguisher could not keep the fire out and it kept re-igniting. Intake, air cleaner, radiator, valve covers, etc just melted and disintegrated with no signs of the TV, VCR, Laptop Computer, Cobra Steel Cased CB or much of anything else in the drivers compartment left behind.
The rub was I just had the front wheel bearings and brakes along with all fuel and oil lines checked on that 9 Ton Chevy P30 Chassis by a certified truck mechanic.
Glad you got it out before a more devastating loss occurred.
I lost a motor home that caught while on the interstate. Wheel heated up taking out a nearby fuel injection line and when gasoline shot out at 70 psi on the red hot wheel along with the exhaust manifold that was the end if it. Wife, two daughters, dog and cat just barely got out once I was able to stop the vehicle which had also lost its brakes. Panic drive shaft brake had no in-between setting so it was not a good idea to flip it on with the chance of loosing control while on fire until the major speed was bled off. Everything was so hot that the dry chem fire extinguisher could not keep the fire out and it kept re-igniting. Intake, air cleaner, radiator, valve covers, etc just melted and disintegrated with no signs of the TV, VCR, Laptop Computer, Cobra Steel Cased CB or much of anything else in the drivers compartment left behind.
The rub was I just had the front wheel bearings and brakes along with all fuel and oil lines checked on that 9 Ton Chevy P30 Chassis by a certified truck mechanic.
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
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- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
OUCH! I have seen a couple of those ablaze by the side of the road. Usually not much left by the time a fire truck can arrive. Glad everyone got out safely. Tell me about those certified mechanics at the dealerships. If it doesn't have a code it aint broke. No basic thought or common sense skills. I wont take the Fiat any where near those guys. I guess all they teach them in tech school and after that dealer classes is how to read a laptop. I have had enough bad experiences with those folks that I fix everything I can and only take it to the shop if its a dealer only part. Even then I try to avoid them.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Took the carbs off Friday (my day off) before the rain showers. Had wanted to be working on the garage but the showers were fortuitous in making me take time for the car. Took bot carbs off as it was just easier to get to the bolts on the back one with the front one out of the way. The carb is no soaking in "goo be gone" to get rid of the melted foam sticky stuff. The tuff part was getting the chokes out as I didn't want to take the butterfly plates off. The chokes have the most gunk on them. Otherwise fine. I ordered a rebuild kit from Pierce manifolds and that showed up on Saturday. Great guys there! Also picked up some split cable wrap for the ignition wires from the Computronics distrib to the coils. I may need to take the intake manifold off to clean that as well. Want to take a look at what passed up to the valve anyhow. Pulled the plugs and they were black.. Has a devil of a time getting number 4 wire off. boot was loose but the end that connects to the plug was really really corroded. Hmmmmm. ended up tearing the boot to get it off. arghhhhhhhh.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
So I started working on the carbs and ran into a small problem
The Venturi top got hot enough to start to melt. Probably will still work but pierce manifolds has one. So far so good
The other part is the accelerator pump cover with arm and roller. The roller got hot enough to melt some leaving an impression of the throttle plate arm that it sits on in the roller itself. Hmmmmmm. Dont see a part listed at PM. They are looking in old boxes, but not hopeful at the moment.
Anyone have a clunker laying around (40 IDF part)???
The Venturi top got hot enough to start to melt. Probably will still work but pierce manifolds has one. So far so good
The other part is the accelerator pump cover with arm and roller. The roller got hot enough to melt some leaving an impression of the throttle plate arm that it sits on in the roller itself. Hmmmmmm. Dont see a part listed at PM. They are looking in old boxes, but not hopeful at the moment.
Anyone have a clunker laying around (40 IDF part)???
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Well I got the new waffle manifold on after two years What a pain, particularly with the Comutronics sticking out of the the oil pump drive. Manifold studs have to be removed and inserted with the manifold in place, then slide the manifold back enough to get some channel locks on the studs to snug them into the head, then blind finger all the washers, nuts and bolts into place and squeeze a box wrench over the one behind the Computronics. Replaced some fuel lines that were after only two years starting to check and crack (no leaks but they were on the horizon)
Cranked to get fuel to the carbs and fire it up. Crank, Crank, Crank, Crank.........what the heck. Get my lovely assistant to come sit in the car and crank it while I take a look. Plenty of fuel..hmmmm Computronics looks dead. Hrumph.......No little flashing red light..... The fire had melted the outer wire ring wrap, but the wires and their individual insulation looked fine. Got too dark to see .. Guess I will have to break out the meter and start checking continuity and voltage to the coil pack. Always something..
Cranked to get fuel to the carbs and fire it up. Crank, Crank, Crank, Crank.........what the heck. Get my lovely assistant to come sit in the car and crank it while I take a look. Plenty of fuel..hmmmm Computronics looks dead. Hrumph.......No little flashing red light..... The fire had melted the outer wire ring wrap, but the wires and their individual insulation looked fine. Got too dark to see .. Guess I will have to break out the meter and start checking continuity and voltage to the coil pack. Always something..
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
- Texsardo
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:15 am
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat Spider Convertible 1800
- Location: Post Falls, Idaho
- Contact:
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
I had worked on my 78' for 6 months. Replaced interior.Engine running like a purring Panther.
Well I'm sitting in line for the 2016 Car d'Alene in Coeur d'Alene Idaho. Car performing perfect all day.
It is a daily driver. Well sitting line at about 75th out off 400 entries. Since they were still lining up behind me I shut off the engine. After about 20 minutes they relayed to start em up. Gave it one pump, turned ignition and it made a loud burp. Did not think much about it so gave another pump to start but noticed smoke coming out from the hood. Turned it off, jumped out and opened to see carb blazing away. Grabbed a rag and smothered fire. The same "Dome foam" as your cleaner was melted all over the carb. No possibility of running now. So some of the crowd helped me push it into a driveway where I sat as over 250 entrants passed by me. I stayed calm even as many walked by with the remark, Fix It Again Tony. Or "You should have bought an American Car." Took all my restraint to not give one guy a dirt sandwich but we Fiat owners are better than that. After all had passed, got help to push it around the corner and park on street. Came back next day, swapped out a spare carb and drove home. First big show bombed.
So PLEASE, folks. Those cleaners are a safety hazard. Thank goodness I threw the old ripped hood insulation blankets and replaced with aircraft fire retardant aluminum honey comb. Saved my hood from any damage.
Well I'm sitting in line for the 2016 Car d'Alene in Coeur d'Alene Idaho. Car performing perfect all day.
It is a daily driver. Well sitting line at about 75th out off 400 entries. Since they were still lining up behind me I shut off the engine. After about 20 minutes they relayed to start em up. Gave it one pump, turned ignition and it made a loud burp. Did not think much about it so gave another pump to start but noticed smoke coming out from the hood. Turned it off, jumped out and opened to see carb blazing away. Grabbed a rag and smothered fire. The same "Dome foam" as your cleaner was melted all over the carb. No possibility of running now. So some of the crowd helped me push it into a driveway where I sat as over 250 entrants passed by me. I stayed calm even as many walked by with the remark, Fix It Again Tony. Or "You should have bought an American Car." Took all my restraint to not give one guy a dirt sandwich but we Fiat owners are better than that. After all had passed, got help to push it around the corner and park on street. Came back next day, swapped out a spare carb and drove home. First big show bombed.
So PLEASE, folks. Those cleaners are a safety hazard. Thank goodness I threw the old ripped hood insulation blankets and replaced with aircraft fire retardant aluminum honey comb. Saved my hood from any damage.
- seabeelt
- Patron 2019
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 pm
- Your car is a: Fiat Spider - 1971 BS1
- Location: Tiverton, RI
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Yeah, I won't be putting those back on the car. I've gone to the lunchbox style.. Still not running. I'm having ignition issues with the Computronix.
Michael and Deborah Williamson
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
1971 Spider -Tropie’ - w screaming IDFs
1971 Spider - Vesper -scrapped
1979 Spider - Seraphina - our son's car now sold
1972 Spider - Tortellini- our son's current
-
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 am
- Your car is a: 1978 Spider [1979 2 ltr engine]
- Location: Aiken, SC
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Very sorry to see / hear of the fires in both cars. Hopefully you'll have it all sorted out soon and be back on the road.
I have a related question for all interested parties. A fire needs a combustible and an ignition source to start. The foam filters are in my experience horrible because they easily absorb fuel vapors and are then highly flammable. BUT, it still takes an ignition source to light it off. On both FI and carbed cars this is commonly a "backfire", the cars ignition fires when the intake valve is partially open and ignites the fuel resulting in a "power stroke" of flame backwards through the intake, often dramatically up through the carb..
Back fires can be the result of improper valve timing or overlap or improper ignition timing or of course some combination of the two, combined with sufficient air fuel mixture in the cylinder at the time. So my question is about the Computronix and carbed cars.
Let me start by saying I think it is a VERY GOOD product and I am not bashing it. I have had a FI car with one and liked it a lot and recently had one for a short time on a carded car but sold it. Here's why: the Computronix is a "dual fire" system. That means simply that in our four cylinder cars it fires on two of the four cylinders every rotation of the crank, both the cylinder that is supposed to be firing and the one that is just beginning its intake stroke. The intake valve opening for cylinder on the intake stroke of course actually happens somewhat before TDC as does the ignition event.
If for any reason there is sufficient unburnt fuel in the cylinder (not enough exhaust scavaging or some new intake charge entering the cylinder before the ignition event) you get a backfire. This is most likely when the car is cold and perhaps being choked creating a very rich mixture. It would also be worse with more radical cams where the intake opening and ignition event are closer together.
This also happens in FI cars if timing is off but is rarer since FI is much more precise and is injecting only to the runner for the cylinder that is on the compression stroke (except of course when the cold start valve is supplying fuel to the general manifold). The result there can be a busted intake hose or damage to the FI air metering unit.
But on a carbed car it usually means fire back out the carb. This is more likely the shorter the intake runner (multiple carb setups) and the more radical the cams. So for me, having run it for a while with dual carbs I decided to sell the Computronix and go with a more traditional setup, albeit a modern version of a distributor, the 123 unit. Since then I have experienced very little in the way of backfires, mostly only when very cold and choked and that was before setting up the air fuel mixture to a "best lean".
I am sure many people have Computrinix running with carbs who are happy. Just looking to see what the community's experience has been?
Mark, as the seller I am interested in your insights but please again note I am not saying it isn't good, just posing questions.
I have a related question for all interested parties. A fire needs a combustible and an ignition source to start. The foam filters are in my experience horrible because they easily absorb fuel vapors and are then highly flammable. BUT, it still takes an ignition source to light it off. On both FI and carbed cars this is commonly a "backfire", the cars ignition fires when the intake valve is partially open and ignites the fuel resulting in a "power stroke" of flame backwards through the intake, often dramatically up through the carb..
Back fires can be the result of improper valve timing or overlap or improper ignition timing or of course some combination of the two, combined with sufficient air fuel mixture in the cylinder at the time. So my question is about the Computronix and carbed cars.
Let me start by saying I think it is a VERY GOOD product and I am not bashing it. I have had a FI car with one and liked it a lot and recently had one for a short time on a carded car but sold it. Here's why: the Computronix is a "dual fire" system. That means simply that in our four cylinder cars it fires on two of the four cylinders every rotation of the crank, both the cylinder that is supposed to be firing and the one that is just beginning its intake stroke. The intake valve opening for cylinder on the intake stroke of course actually happens somewhat before TDC as does the ignition event.
If for any reason there is sufficient unburnt fuel in the cylinder (not enough exhaust scavaging or some new intake charge entering the cylinder before the ignition event) you get a backfire. This is most likely when the car is cold and perhaps being choked creating a very rich mixture. It would also be worse with more radical cams where the intake opening and ignition event are closer together.
This also happens in FI cars if timing is off but is rarer since FI is much more precise and is injecting only to the runner for the cylinder that is on the compression stroke (except of course when the cold start valve is supplying fuel to the general manifold). The result there can be a busted intake hose or damage to the FI air metering unit.
But on a carbed car it usually means fire back out the carb. This is more likely the shorter the intake runner (multiple carb setups) and the more radical the cams. So for me, having run it for a while with dual carbs I decided to sell the Computronix and go with a more traditional setup, albeit a modern version of a distributor, the 123 unit. Since then I have experienced very little in the way of backfires, mostly only when very cold and choked and that was before setting up the air fuel mixture to a "best lean".
I am sure many people have Computrinix running with carbs who are happy. Just looking to see what the community's experience has been?
Mark, as the seller I am interested in your insights but please again note I am not saying it isn't good, just posing questions.
Jeff Klein, Aiken, SC
1980 FI Spider, Veridian with Tan (sold about a year ago), in the market for another project
1989 Spider, sold
2008 Mercedes SL65
2008 S600 Mercedes V12
1980 FI Spider, Veridian with Tan (sold about a year ago), in the market for another project
1989 Spider, sold
2008 Mercedes SL65
2008 S600 Mercedes V12
- RRoller123
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 8179
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
- Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
- Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
I had one backfire with the Compu on my FI 80 when I was installing and timing new cams this Spring, but it was clearly because I had the cam timing way off. I had left the intake hose loose at the AFM and it blew it off there. No damage. The Compu has been fine for about 6000 miles so far. Mounted in the block position under the intake.
Pete
Pete
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle
Re: Whats that black smoke???? Holy S@&t I'm on Fire
Yes the Computronix is a waste spark system, so it fires the alternate cylinder as well as the cylinder on compression. And yes, because of that design it is possible to have a backfire in the intake. But, this happens because you have raw fuel in the intake. A standard ignition doesn't have the output to fire uncompressed fuel but the Computronix at 60000 volts does. It's not an ignition problem, it's a fuel issue. Pouring raw fuel into cylinders isn't a good thing, it causes accelerated ring wear and can dilute the oil in the crankcase.
Many oem manufacturers have been using waste spark for years, so it's not unique to the Computronix system. Basically any car with a coil pack has waste spark
We advise owners with this system on a carbed car to not touch the gas pedal when starting a warm engine and 2 short pumps on the pedal when cold. Always crank the engine with the throttle closed
Many oem manufacturers have been using waste spark for years, so it's not unique to the Computronix system. Basically any car with a coil pack has waste spark
We advise owners with this system on a carbed car to not touch the gas pedal when starting a warm engine and 2 short pumps on the pedal when cold. Always crank the engine with the throttle closed