Help, please someone help. SOLVED!!!

[zachmac]

I am very depressed. This may be a long post but if I cannot figure out what is going on soon I am going to give this car away to someone VERY cheap.

I bought a non-running car from a forum member out of Conn., 1978 with a 2 ltr carbed 79 engine. Sat for four years without running. Had a header and twin DCNA carbs. Got it here and got it running but it ran very rough and burned so much oil you could fog the neighborhood with it. Decided to pull the engine and do a total rebuild. New 4mm domed pistons, rings, all bearings, freshen the head with new seals, regrind, all new gaskets everywhere, etc.

Put it all back together and decided to go simpler so I sold the twin carb setup and put on a progressive 32/ 34 two barrel carb, new for Allison. Kept the header. Initially had a set of hotter cams as well which I sold and went back to the stock ones so I should have a mild streetable car with a header, little better compression and be able to have a little extra ummph with good reliability and smooth running. This is all background. Here is where I start to go insane.

Initially I went with a late model Marelli electronic distributor. I set carb mixture screw and idle screws per recommendations ,made sure I had a good regulated 2.25 to 2.5 lbs fuel pressure (electric pump) and all new coil and control module. Car started right up and idled and revved great. BTW, electric choke working fine. My timing light decided to quit right then however and I had a wrong set of plug wires (long set for a block mount dizzy) so I shut it off, happy that it was running but determined to find my other timing light and get a correct wire set. Three days later I get the wires and find my backup timing light and crap, it cranks and cranks and cranks but will not fire. Nothing. Spark at the plug wires but very weak. I try going back to the other set of plug wires but no help, crank forever, no fire.

Pull plugs (fresh properly gapped set) and see black fouling, very rich. Don't know if its the carb or ignition so I go through the carb. Complete tear down; nothing wrong, no dirt, everything working as it should. Now what?

Buy a 123 distributor (yeah I'm grasping at straws) with a matching coil and install them. Set static timing and voila, starts and runs like a champ. Shut it off and wait twenty minutes, go back and tap the key and she starts and purrs. Fantastic! Go to dinner and come back a few hours later and tap the key, fires right up and purrs. I am grinning like a kid on Christmas. That was three days ago.

I come home today and think I sure would like to start the weekend off right (I have tomorrow off), I think I'll start the Fiat. OMG, same thing, crank, crank, crank and nothing, no fire. Check key on volts at coil and I have 11.9 volts (12.1 at battery itself). Some drop but should be enough? Pull plugs and they are fouled black again.

Also did the screwdriver in a plug wire while son cranks it check, and I have a very weak spark at the plug. Not what I think it should be? Checked volts at positive coil post while cranking and it drops from 11.9 to about 10.5. Is that normal? Should that be enough? What is going on, why did it start and run once with both distributors but won't a second with either? I am at a loss and ready to try to sell the car as is at a great loss.

I think it cannot be a fuel delivery issue. The carb worked fine on the times it started and ran. Hard to see anything changing there. The fouled plugs could be from normal fuel delivery but no spark or weak spark. No idea what to try next. Lost and deeply depressed. Ideas?

[bobplyler]

I'd try a battery charger.

[SunnySideUp]

If you used a high-power coil with the 123Ignition it will give you grief.

The 123Ignition system works best with a Bosch "blue" coil (basic "stock" replacement coil for the Fiat 124 Spider). I know it does not make sense, but it works. I have a series of emails from a 123Ignition tech rep on this subject including their direction to use a "stock" Bosch coil.

[riverdadd]

im ready for my next project............pm prices... im in VA

[ORFORD2004]

I send a complete coil and distributor assembly to Ga.Spyder and he don't need it. It was in my 83 when I switch to EDIS4 Maybe he can send it to you so you can try it.

John

[klweimer]

Zachmac,

Step away from the car. Drink several adult beverages of your choice (I find tequila works well). You know it's something simple, probably a bad ground or ignition switch. Worry about it next week.

Kirk

[zachmac]

Thanks for all the support guys (specially you Riverdadd, ha ha ). I know, just walk away for a while. It has to be ignition related, not fuel as changing the distributor and coil fixed it temporarily. I have to figure out what is burning up coils if that is indeed the case.

[baltobernie]

Next week, just for giggles, see if you have voltage at the coil with the key Off. I know, near-zero probability, but WTH.

[zachmac]

Well Kenneth Moses was kind enough to send me a text encouraging me to call as he had gone through similar trials fitting both a new fuel system / carb and ignition to his car. While running through the discussion today he asked me if my choke was almost fully closed when the car was "cold". I mentioned that it was never cold since it's been in the high 90s here for a week or more and I was pretty sure it was full open. He patiently explained that even on a very hot day if when you are first starting the car it isn't almost fully choked it will crank forever without starting. Sure enough when I went out to the car I discovered that a very tiny circlip for the actuator lever for the choke where it attached to the choke itself had fallen off (gone forever in the engine bay somewhere) and sure enough the lever was jammed such that it was holding the choke full open. I freed it and it immediately snapped almost closed. Said a prayer, pumped the peddle once, cranked it and it fired right up!!!!

I guess it has just been to long since I owned a auto choke car. All the previous cars where either manual chokes of F.I. I just relearned that a "cold" engine is a relative term. Now I just need to go get a 3mm circlip and reattach the lever.

Again, thanks to all the advice, counsel and help. I need to learn to just step back, take a deep breath and look for the simple answer. OR, as was advised, go have a few adult beverages and chill out. Gonna do that now!

[Nanonevol]

Was that the EMPI carb?

[AriK]

Kirk was correct all along. Something very simple. +1 on stepping away for a while and chilling with tequila.
No need to sell the car and have someone else figure it out.

[zachmac]

Was that the EMPI carb?

Yes, the EMPI. As I mentioned I did take it all apart at one point so I may not have gotten the clip fully seated. Can't blame EMPI. Have others had this issue?

[spider2081]

YEEEAaaaaa

I was worried the car was coming back to CT.

Great to hear you are happy