Won't Start

[DaveMarcotte]

Previously posted in tuning section.
Over the winter I install a new 34adf (Chinese) on my '77 it ran fairly well. Couple weekends ago I played with the mixture and it never ran better. The following weekend after a ride she was very hard to start. Planing on installing distributerless anyway this summer, I ordered a unit and installed last week. (Thinking I'd eliminate any ignition problems). After installation it was a hard to start but did. Idled for a few minutes then died. Not turning the key off I noticed the carb filling with fuel! Now a changed out the float and needle with my old 32adf. Having been flooded she won't start and in the process my starter went. Now with my bran new modern starter installed she cranks like crazy, the light on my distributerless flashing she just won't start!

Do I need to remove my carb completely and dry out the intake? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[RRoller123]

If you literally have the intake filled with gasoline then you quite literally have an explosion risk. Liquid gasoline pooling and filling the intake manifold up to and into the carburetor? If this is the case, Don't try to start it, disconnect the battery, and pull the entire intake manifold and dry everything out. Also pull the spark plugs and see if the cylinders have pooled gasoline in them.

[DieselSpider]

Dave - Some time references between all these events would help. Was the replacement of the ignition, starter, noticing the flooding, swapping the float, etc all on the same day or has some time passed?

If you are not getting a distinct odor of raw gas coming from the exhaust then you are probably not flooded that badly. Even if you are terribly flooded if you leave the throttle plates open for several hours that will usually cure that in the intake if its not freezing out. Gas in the cylinders usually will leak past the rings and end up in your crankcase which if you get a distinct gasoline odor when you open the oil cap or from the dipstick may indicate a need for an oil change.

Having had really bad experiences with multiple Chinese Motorcycle Carbs I am not a big fan of Chinese Carburetors. Many times the float seats will compress or pivots wear in after a very short time requiring them the be adjusted to spec using an appropriate float level gauge. Castings are usually sub par and may have gas inclusions making them like Swiss Cheese inside that may open up some time after they are put into service causing all sorts of ploblem. The rubber and plastic parts in many of the Chinese products do not react well to ethanol either and even if you get one good carb from a Chinese distributor that is no guarantee that then next one or even 1,000 won't be duds as even if they came from the same assembly plant they can be getting floats and gaskets from a supplier who outsources from multiple providers making their parts very inconstant.

[DaveMarcotte]

Dave - Some time references between all these events would help. Was the replacement of the ignition, starter, noticing the flooding, swapping the float, etc all on the same day or has some time passed?

If you are not getting a distinct odor of raw gas coming from the exhaust then you are probably not flooded that badly. Even if you are terribly flooded if you leave the throttle plates open for several hours that will usually cure that in the intake if its not freezing out. Gas in the cylinders usually will leak past the rings and end up in your crankcase which if you get a distinct gasoline odor when you open the oil cap or from the dipstick may indicate a need for an oil change.

Having had really bad experiences with multiple Chinese Motorcycle Carbs I am not a big fan of Chinese Carburetors. Many times the float seats will compress or pivots wear in after a very short time requiring them the be adjusted to spec using an appropriate float level gauge. Castings are usually sub par and may have gas inclusions making them like Swiss Cheese inside that may open up some time after they are put into service causing all sorts of ploblem. The rubber and plastic parts in many of the Chinese products do not react well to ethanol either and even if you get one good carb from a Chinese distributor that is no guarantee that then next one or even 1,000 won't be duds as even if they came from the same assembly plant they can be getting floats and gaskets from a supplier who outsources from multiple providers making their parts very inconstant.

Thanks for you input.
Timeline is as follows: Problem with carb flooding, ordered new distributorless and installed 1 week. Car started but stalled and I noticed with the fuel pump going the carb was filling up. Changed float and needle. Tried starting, killed starter all same day. Now one week later new starter new starter no start that was yesterday. Throttle opened full all night and small fan blowing down into carb. Will try again in a couple hours. If doesn't work thinking I'll get a 32/36 DFEV Thoughts? Thanks again

[DaveMarcotte]

Stopped by my mechanics shop and got some great advise (at least I hope so). I likely so badly flooded the cylinders with fuel that I've washed away the oil on the cylinder walls as well as thinning the oil, which is required for the compression rings to seal and not lose compression of the compression stroke. Something I have never head before. I'll change the oil and see if that works.

[DaveMarcotte]

Nope that wasn't it. It far, far worse. Removed plugs yet again to find number three had been struck by the piston. With my camera the piston looks like a hole has been blow through it. If this was October I'd have my winter project during my off season but this really sucks.

I'm I looking at a complete rebuild? Man this is disappointing.

[narfire]

Pop the head off...perhaps 1/2-3/4 hour and have a look . Disconnect the exhaust at the pipe/manifold, gas line, head bolts, wires to dist. and that's about it I think. (coolant lines also)

[DaveMarcotte]

It appears a blew the intake valve apart. Had a couple good pop come out the carb. That did it I'm sure.

Here's what I found

[riverdadd]

ouch... car.... nage..... i have a spare piston if u want it.....its used, and free


riverdadd

[DaveMarcotte]

ouch... car.... nage..... i have a spare piston if u want it.....its used, and free


riverdadd

Thank very much for the offer. Wondering if I should change them all. Hoping the auto machine shop can fix up the head. The valve seat is damaged. Thanks again for the offer. May yet take you up on it.

[So Cal Mark]

backfire won't break a valve, it had to contact something. Either an object held it open or was in the cylinder. The backfire would have occurred once the port was open on compression.
it's not free, but I have 1 more NOS 1800 short block if you're interested

[DaveMarcotte]

backfire won't break a valve, it had to contact something. Either an object held it open or was in the cylinder. The backfire would have occurred once the port was open on compression.
it's not free, but I have 1 more NOS 1800 short block if you're interested

Thanks for the info Mark. I'll get the valve cover off to see if there's evident of something holding the valve open. I remember it cranking trying to get it started then a crush followed by the starter failing which of course is likely that number 3 piston jammed again the broken valve.

[narfire]

Hey Dave, that sucks man..
I should have a set of 84mm pistons (used) at the shop if required. PM if required. I'd put a set of new rings in though after honing the cylinders.
Looks like you'll be pulling the block now.
Chris

[DaveMarcotte]

Hey Dave, that sucks man..
I should have a set of 84mm pistons (used) at the shop if required. PM if required. I'd put a set of new rings in though after honing the cylinders.
Looks like you'll be pulling the block now.
Chris

Thanks Chris. Let you know. Man good people on here!

[ORFORD2004]

I have a 2L with 4.5 mm dome piston and total seal ring and a head from FI