Legality of removing bumpers

[superbenk]

My '78 is registered as an antique in southeastern Pennsylvania. I just removed the front bumper this week as they're pretty rusty & I really like the look without the bumpers. But then I got to thinking about whether I'd have problems out driving it without those bumpers. Does anyone know what the ramifications are of removing the bumpers completely? I realize I'm giving up some protection to the car, but legally what should I expect? Am I better off just cleaning them up & putting them back on or replacing them?

[johndemar]

I haven't lived in PA since 83, but at that time you would not be able to get the state inspection without them.

[superbenk]

There is no inspection on an antique registered vehicle.

[So Cal Mark]

I would suggest looking up the PA vehicle code. You should be able to read it online. In Calif, the law states that if a car was originally equipped with bumper, then bumpers are required. It doesn't state that they have to be original, just a bumper. That leaves it pretty wide open for modification or updating/backdating. It's gonna vary by state of course.

[DieselSpider]

Legality aside there is also the fine print of your insurance policy and the ramifications of bodily injury complaints should anyone claim they were injured because the car had the bumpers removed exposing passerby's to sharp edges posing a danger to pedestrians.

I lived in Massachusetts until 1992 and at that time you could be taken to task for any body modification that could pose a risk to pedestrians which also covered rust or collision damage left unrepaired and posing a risk.

You have to check with your attorney and not just check on line as the Internet is the Misinformation Super Highway and even when accurate you may find that the letter of the law may still leave you exposed to unacceptable risk.

[zachmac]

I lived in Massachusetts until 1992 and at that time you could be taken to task for any body modification that could pose a risk to pedestrians which also covered rust or collision damage left unrepaired and posing a risk.

When Ronald Reagan was getting ready to make his first trip to the former Soviet Union his press secretary was asked if the president had ever been to a communist country before? The press secretary answered, "Sure, he's been to Massachusetts." Having lived in both Mass and PA in the past you'd be well advised to ask the state.

[bonsaiwino]

Superbank, Where are you located? I'm in Quakertown. Don

[So Cal Mark]

your state vehicle code online won't contain misinformation

[DieselSpider]

your state vehicle code online won't contain misinformation

It will contain amendments and addendum's that you need to research and vet out thoroughly which depending on where you live they can become very convoluted. You can easily become misinformed if you do not read and understand the whole of it and not just one paragraph or provision. If you search for the regs for some/many States you will get a number of official looking links to misinformation or just partial snippets so caution is advised on just doing an on-line search as the few paragraphs you find can lead you to a false conclusion. State regs aside then there are local regulations and ordinance to consider and how the local enforcement agencies view them.

Bottom line your best off seeking the advice of a legal professional who lives in your own community and specializes in motor vehicle regulations.

In the Massachusetts township I grew up in you could get pulled over for a bumper that was too high or too low. If they looked up the manufacturers spec and yours was at a different height then you got a fine and depending on the situation could have your tags confiscated so your car would then have to be towed to where bumpers could be installed to meet regulation. If the car was indeed an antique and licensed that way then you could get around it with a restricted plate that limited the vehicle to daylight driving only on the lower speed secondary roadways.

When living in the township I got pulled over for a muffler violation on my old school Power Wagon however since it was the OEM straight through muffler that came with the W200 E20 Special I didn't get a ticket and the officer noted that my truck was as manufactured. Since it was a ordinance related stop they did also check the bumper heights, mirrors and all other safety equipment including the parking brake. Having everything else passing inspection really helped my relationship with the local police since it showed that I had taken the time to vet out and meet the local requirements to protect car drivers when I modified the bumpers to accommodate the plow frame, military PTO winch and heavy duty hitch for construction trailers. In accidents too many cars were going under the bumpers of modified truck endangering the cars occupants so there was a local push to mitigate that situation.

[TX82FIAT]

Lived in PA about 14 - 15 years ago and owned spiders during that time. I can not vouch for what is legal. However, in the late 90's I was able to pass PA inspection without the bumpers. At that time the inspection stations really did not look for bumpers assuming the car would have them.

[superbenk]

Superbank, Where are you located? I'm in Quakertown. Don

Sorry, I'm not getting email updates to replies so haven't been paying attention - need to fix that! Don, I'm in Warrington just south of you. We should get together sometime!

The code is definitely ambiguous. This section is the one that seems the most damning to running without bumpers:

"Classic motor vehicle—A self-propelled vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 10 years prior to the current year and because of discontinued production and limited availability, determined by the Department to be a model or make of significant value to collectors or exhibitors, and which has been maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications and appearance."

I suspect the letter of the code will require me to have bumpers but it may come down to the situation as to how picky they are about what kind of bumpers based on the year. For instance, if I do a conversion to early chrome bumpers from pre-1974 most places/people will probably be totally ok with that, but there will possibly be someone who knows post-1974 should have big tube bumpers. Since the car is registered antique it never gets annual inspections so it would come down to whether I get stopped.

The reason I asked was because I see so many of these cars online without the bumpers that it makes it seem like a non-issue. Insurance is certainly another concern, no doubt. Thanks for all the responses so far.

Wish the bumpers I took off were in better condition because replacements aren't cheap! If I do go back to bumpers I'm considering either the retro pre-1974 chrome or stainless lightweight tubes from Auto Ricambi.

[PhillySpider]

Superbank, Where are you located? I'm in Quakertown. Don

Sorry, I'm not getting email updates to replies so haven't been paying attention - need to fix that! Don, I'm in Warrington just south of you. We should get together sometime!

The code is definitely ambiguous. This section is the one that seems the most damning to running without bumpers:

"Classic motor vehicle—A self-propelled vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 10 years prior to the current year and because of discontinued production and limited availability, determined by the Department to be a model or make of significant value to collectors or exhibitors, and which has been maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications and appearance."

I suspect the letter of the code will require me to have bumpers but it may come down to the situation as to how picky they are about what kind of bumpers based on the year. For instance, if I do a conversion to early chrome bumpers from pre-1974 most places/people will probably be totally ok with that, but there will possibly be someone who knows post-1974 should have big tube bumpers. Since the car is registered antique it never gets annual inspections so it would come down to whether I get stopped.

The reason I asked was because I see so many of these cars online without the bumpers that it makes it seem like a non-issue. Insurance is certainly another concern, no doubt. Thanks for all the responses so far.

Wish the bumpers I took off were in better condition because replacements aren't cheap! If I do go back to bumpers I'm considering either the retro pre-1974 chrome or stainless lightweight tubes from Auto Ricambi.

Superbenk, I just bought an '80 spider...I'm in New Hope, realizing this is an OLD topic, but would like to know what you found out. My spider has one bumper shock pushed in and I'm thinking of removing them all together. I don't even know where to begin with removal. PM me if you still have your spider and would like to meet. When's the next covered bridge tour???