Tips on making my car faster

[kenncarp]

Hey guys, i have a 79 124, with an ansa performance exhaust on it, and thats about all it has performance wise on it. It has a aftermarket air filter on it, and a slightly bigger weber carbuerator that was put on by the owner before me, but i want to get a little more umph out of this thing . I dont have a job or anything, so i dont have crazy money, but summer just started and im gonna be working a little to get some cash. What do you guys think would be some big or little things i could do the engine etc. To get this thing running a little faster. Looking forward to hearing ideas!

[narfire]

Although a FI fan, I understand that swapping to an 1800 head, single plane intake, upgraded carb (32/36 or 34ADF) will give a noticeable improvement... All bolt on. I believe the exhaust in a 79 is a 4-2-1 so that is fine. If it is a 4-1 then bin it and get a 4-2-1. perhaps different cams as well but then I'd recommend the adjustable cam wheels with those.(more $$)
If you ever have the $$ or desire to tear the engine down then perhaps try and source another 2L engine, put it on a stand and over , say a year, build a higher performance engine...guessing $4-5000.00 would work...
Chris

[kenncarp]

Although a FI fan, I understand that swapping to an 1800 head, single plane intake, upgraded carb (32/36 or 34ADF) will give a noticeable improvement... All bolt on. I believe the exhaust in a 79 is a 4-2-1 so that is fine. If it is a 4-1 then bin it and get a 4-2-1. perhaps different cams as well but then I'd recommend the adjustable cam wheels with those.(more $$)
If you ever have the $$ or desire to tear the engine down then perhaps try and source another 2L engine, put it on a stand and over , say a year, build a higher performance engine...guessing $4-5000.00 would work...
Chris

Thanks for the input! What is a single plane intake? Im looking at foing a dual carbuerator conversion even though ita pretty spendy. I would probrobly be better off switching to some 1800 cc heads like you said. As far as cams, i might fool with all of that if i run into some money, or ever have to pull the engine. Thanks for the advice!

[RoyBatty]

A single plane manifold is all four runners to the head running to a single plenum under the carburetor supplied with air and fuel from both barrels of the carb depending on how far you have the throttle opened.

A dual plane manifold has two different plenums under the carb, one for the primary barrel and one for the secondary barrel.
the primary passages are very small in cross section and somewhat restrict the flow of air/fuel, but the throttle response on the primary only from low RPM is improved.
When you then open the second barrel of the carb the second plenum with larger runners joins in feeding fuel/air the the cylinders along with the primary runners.

I've just got done with my second dual carb (2x IDF 40's) on my Coupe. And I can say that my experience has been nothing but positive with respect to the increase in power and the great snarling sound that comes from the four stacks up front.
However, this is not a mod for the casual tinkerer. You need to do some research and make sure you understand all there is to know about going this route.
Good luck

[kenncarp]

A single plane manifold is all four runners to the head running to a single plenum under the carburetor supplied with air and fuel from both barrels of the carb depending on how far you have the throttle opened.

A dual plane manifold has two different plenums under the carb, one for the primary barrel and one for the secondary barrel.
the primary passages are very small in cross section and somewhat restrict the flow of air/fuel, but the throttle response on the primary only from low RPM is improved.
When you then open the second barrel of the carb the second plenum with larger runners joins in feeding fuel/air the the cylinders along with the primary runners.

I've just got done with my second dual carb (2x IDF 40's) on my Coupe. And I can say that my experience has been nothing but positive with respect to the increase in power and the great snarling sound that comes from the four stacks up front.
However, this is not a mod for the casual tinkerer. You need to do some research and make sure you understand all there is to know about going this route.
Good luck

I now understand what the single plane manifold is. Thank you! Im guessing the dual plane is what comes stock? Is there a place you could purchase a single plane? Do they just bolt on? As far as dual carbs go, what makes them an advanced job? Look forward to hearing back from you!

[vandor]

Using an 1800 head gives such a small performance increase that it is only worth doing if the head needs to be rebuilt anyways.

[kenncarp]

Using an 1800 head gives such a small performance increase that it is only worth doing if the head needs to be rebuilt anyways.

Oh really? Since my car already has the 4-2-1 headers, I'm thinking to throw on a single plane intake, and a 32/36 weber. It would only be about 400 dollars together. How much of a performance difference do you think it would make? As far as cams and all that go should i bother with that? Thanks!

[djape1977]

install a shorter ratio diff

[toplessexpat]

You'll be pretty happy with a single plane intake and the 32/36.

If you're going to open up the engine, then an 1800 head will give you slightly higher compression but, as Csaba says, only worth doing if you need to do the head gasket etc. Then, some hot(ter) cams, and adjustable cam wheels to get them set just right. (Starting to talk $$ now).

Dual carbs are fun. Weber 40s or 44s are the main upgrades (and they're what fiat used) there are some others like side drafts too. There's a special intake manifold needed for them - either the original "waffle top" (of which there's a different version for the 44s than for the 40s, although some have machined the 40 one to fit 44s). Not many of those waffle tops are around - so some of the vendors do their own (Pierce and Allison's notably). As noted - this isn't a trivial change. The synchronization of dual carbs needs to be perfect (look for posts by sptcoupe on here), as does the jetting (which is somewhat dependent on your motor and the tweaks you've done). Also the throttle linkage needs to be reworked to pull the dual carbs from the middle of their linkage, smoothly and consistently. Fortunately, the VW community has kept much of the demand for dual 40 and 44 carbs alive and while not cheap, lots of parts are abailable. Yes - we're in the $$$ range here.

If the engine is being opened all the way - then look at getting domed pistons put in and increasing compression that way.

Ignition is an option that may interest you. Many people on here run Allison's high performance ignition set up (myself included), and it's very good. It ensures all fuel is used, is highly efficient, and is a breeze to install. He's about to come out with a new version that will fit where the distributor is right now on yours (the old version was block mounted down near the oil filter, versus cam mounted). It's quite a few $, but well worth it. It was my first performance update on my 1800.

If you make it go forward faster, please invest some time (and only a few $) on making it stop at least as efficiently as fiat intended. The four wheel disc brakes are pretty good as stock. Treat her to some green stuff pads, some stainless hoses, and take the time to bleed the brakes. There are also big brake kits which are excellent. Also - check the compensator for the rear brakes (lots of information on here about them). They make sure the rear doesn't lock up when under heavy braking and weight is shifted to the nose. Some people bypass them, I'm personally a fan and make sure mine are perfect.

These cars are not 250bhp, tire smoking, rockets - you're not going to win the quarter mile against a modern car with one (apart from some notable exceptions!). What they are are a group of really fun cars, that can have mild performance improvements with not too much effort, quite a bit more with quite a bit more effort and $, and be transformed by a lot of $ and effort by other very skilled people than ourselves.

This is some of the most driving fun you'll have. I enjoy 50mph twisty roads in this more than any other car I've owned.

There's an excellent and innovative group of parts vendors out there. They provide OEM parts, remanufactured parts, better than stock parts, and new component options which were never offered by fiat! I prefer to support them in any way I can.

Good luck - and enjoy her.... That's why she was built.

Andy

[RoyBatty]

As far as dual carbs go, what makes them an advanced job? Look forward to hearing back from you!

Now c'mon youngster. You can't expect us to spoon feed you all the knowledge you seek.
Search this forum for everything related to weber idf 40 installation and setup and prepare to study.

[kenncarp]

As far as dual carbs go, what makes them an advanced job? Look forward to hearing back from you!

Now c'mon youngster. You can't expect us to spoon feed you all the knowledge you seek.
Search this forum for everything related to weber idf 40 installation and setup and prepare to study.

Since i posted that, i have done the research about all the tuning and jetting and the new manifold etc. I would need. I figured i dont want to fool with all the money either, i inspected my car this morning, and found that it already has a 34 adf weber on it! If you dont know these were manufactured by fiat for the 124s, and are quite nice. The problem is that ive read if you still have a dual plane manifold, which i do, the 34 adf wont do anything for you. The owner before me was stupid enough to get the 500 dollar carb but not a single plane manifold which is pretty much mandatory for thag carb. Since the 34 adf dosent have the emissions crap, thats why it needed the single plane. I just dont want to spend the money nor time on dual carbs even though they look amazing!

[kenncarp]

You'll be pretty happy with a single plane intake and the 32/36.

If you're going to open up the engine, then an 1800 head will give you slightly higher compression but, as Csaba says, only worth doing if you need to do the head gasket etc. Then, some hot(ter) cams, and adjustable cam wheels to get them set just right. (Starting to talk $$ now).

Dual carbs are fun. Weber 40s or 44s are the main upgrades (and they're what fiat used) there are some others like side drafts too. There's a special intake manifold needed for them - either the original "waffle top" (of which there's a different version for the 44s than for the 40s, although some have machined the 40 one to fit 44s). Not many of those waffle tops are around - so some of the vendors do their own (Pierce and Allison's notably). As noted - this isn't a trivial change. The synchronization of dual carbs needs to be perfect (look for posts by sptcoupe on here), as does the jetting (which is somewhat dependent on your motor and the tweaks you've done). Also the throttle linkage needs to be reworked to pull the dual carbs from the middle of their linkage, smoothly and consistently. Fortunately, the VW community has kept much of the demand for dual 40 and 44 carbs alive and while not cheap, lots of parts are abailable. Yes - we're in the $$$ range here.

If the engine is being opened all the way - then look at getting domed pistons put in and increasing compression that way.

Ignition is an option that may interest you. Many people on here run Allison's high performance ignition set up (myself included), and it's very good. It ensures all fuel is used, is highly efficient, and is a breeze to install. He's about to come out with a new version that will fit where the distributor is right now on yours (the old version was block mounted down near the oil filter, versus cam mounted). It's quite a few $, but well worth it. It was my first performance update on my 1800.

If you make it go forward faster, please invest some time (and only a few $) on making it stop at least as efficiently as fiat intended. The four wheel disc brakes are pretty good as stock. Treat her to some green stuff pads, some stainless hoses, and take the time to bleed the brakes. There are also big brake kits which are excellent. Also - check the compensator for the rear brakes (lots of information on here about them). They make sure the rear doesn't lock up when under heavy braking and weight is shifted to the nose. Some people bypass them, I'm personally a fan and make sure mine are perfect.

These cars are not 250bhp, tire smoking, rockets - you're not going to win the quarter mile against a modern car with one (apart from some notable exceptions!). What they are are a group of really fun cars, that can have mild performance improvements with not too much effort, quite a bit more with quite a bit more effort and $, and be transformed by a lot of $ and effort by other very skilled people than ourselves.

This is some of the most driving fun you'll have. I enjoy 50mph twisty roads in this more than any other car I've owned.

There's an excellent and innovative group of parts vendors out there. They provide OEM parts, remanufactured parts, better than stock parts, and new component options which were never offered by fiat! I prefer to support them in any way I can.

Good luck - and enjoy her.... That's why she was built.

Andy

Thank you for the advice andy! I did some research this morning and found i dont want to spend the money, nor time on dual carbs. I looked at my car, and it has a 34 adf weber carb. It os a carb manufactured by fiat for the 124s. It is basically mandatory to have the single plane intake for this carb, and the owner before me didnt put it on, so i definantly need to do that. Im not going to fool with cams, or the new heads, or pistons right now, because i simply dont have the money. We have already rebuilt back calipers, bought new front calipers, all new rotors, new brake lines, new compensator, new master cylinder, all new brake pads. So we did all the brakes and it stops great! About ignition, i will definantly look into that! Thanks for all the input!

[toplessexpat]

I ran a 34ADF (which was the "performance" option back when they were new"), right up until I put a 38ADL on

[kenncarp]

I ran a 34ADF (which was the "performance" option back when they were new"), right up until I put a 38ADL on

How do you like your 38ADL? Do you have the single plane manifold installed?

[RRoller123]

If not mentioned yet, put in a lightened flywheel! Amazing improvement, for a non-active component.