Sidedraft carbs?

[70spider]

Hello, I got a bit bored yesterday and was surfing the net on Spider info and found this: http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=1353. So from the info I have read the sidedrafts would increase HP and torque. It peeked my interest and thought that this would be something different, so I went looking for the hardware and there is a sidedraft manifold for the TC (http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/p ... ctionID=46). I do think there would be a problem with the brake booster and have seen at car shows where hot rodders moved or eliminated the brake booster. If relocating where? Does anyone have any thought about this?

[FiatMac]

Pierce Manifolds sells manifolds and/or complete dual Weber kits for 40 or 45 DCOEs and 40 or 44 IDFs. http://www.piercemanifolds.com/category_s/98.htm

The booster has to be removed to fit side drafts.

[70spider]

Thanks for the link. So how would one go about relocating the brake booster or removing it?
Update, I have searching the net and found this: http://www.chasebays.com/product/univer ... eliminator it looks straight forward, is it a good idea?

[bradartigue]

Oh man....I had no idea someone made that.

DCOEs are awesome carbs. I've had them on my Alfas for years...they really are the real deal as far as Webers are concerned. Side draft into a TC....time to spend some cash.

[70spider]

Side draft into a TC....time to spend some cash.

I honor your opinion, so you think it would be a good idea?

[Curly]

Very simple to change over to twin side drafts - just convert to right-hand-drive
Twin Weber DCOEs are a very common setup down here.

[70spider]

Wow! Nice set-up. If I did that I would probably drive on the wrong side of the road . So Curly are the sidedrafts a real performance upgrade over idf's? Super nice engine bay .

[Curly]

. So Curly are the sidedrafts a real performance upgrade over idf's? .

Can't say for sure, I've only ever run sidedrafts on both my Coupe and Spider, but I believe most 'experts' say the sidedrafts are worth one or two horses over the downdrafts. Probably not enough of a gain to go to all the trouble of trying to make them fit in your application.

[carl]

Not only would you have to remove the booster but I understand that the master cylinder is still in the way even if bolted direct to the firewall. In a left hand drive spider the IDFs are really the only way to go as they bolt on without any mods to the brake system and in fact they were the Fiat factory carb setup for the Euro 1608 motors. Unless you are running at the extreme edge of a race motor, I don't think you would notice the difference between the DCOEs and IDFs. Not only that, but the collective knowledge of IDF users is much greater here in the US than DCOE users so problem solving is much more direct.

Carl
73 spider with IDFs
79 spider had IDFs
128 wagon will probably run dual IDFs

[70spider]

Not only would you have to remove the booster but I understand that the master cylinder is still in the way even if bolted direct to the firewall. In a left hand drive spider the IDFs are really the only way to go as they bolt on without any mods to the brake system and in fact they were the Fiat factory carb setup for the Euro 1608 motors. Unless you are running at the extreme edge of a race motor, I don't think you would notice the difference between the DCOEs and IDFs. Not only that, but the collective knowledge of IDF users is much greater here in the US than DCOE users so problem solving is much more direct.

Yea, probably easier with the IDF's plus I did a little test run with the vacuum on my booster disconected and "No Thank You" I almost didn't make the stop from 40mph.
In the end I'll probably go with the IDF's, I just thought it would look cool to have a sidedraft Spider, plus the set-up is a bit cheaper than IDF's.

[vandor]

Yes, the sidedraft carbs would have a measurable advantage over downdrafts, Guy Crofts has done a lot of dyno testing on this.
However there is no easy way to put them on a LHD Spider.

[baltobernie]

... I did a little test run with the vacuum on my booster disconnected and "No Thank You" I almost didn't make the stop from 40mph.

You get used to it, and the pedal feel is terrific. I think you'd have plenty of room without the booster for DCOEs; I'm sure Guy would know.

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... d=start=15 Booster removal post on Page 2.

[cormac]

Yes, the sidedraft carbs would have a measurable advantage over downdrafts, Guy Crofts has done a lot of dyno testing on this.
However there is no easy way to put them on a LHD Spider.

hey 70spider, IMHO this is a decision you will have to make on your own taking the "experts" advice with a grain of salt, especially on the subject of carbs and brakes, the difference of opinions (from respected informed contributors) can sometimes be numbing

there is plenty of info out there, look at it all, apply your common sense radar (someone will surely add that common sense and owning a Fiat don't coexist in the same galaxy, let alone the same planet), weigh the benefits, count the cost (realistically by actually itemizing) and make the best decision...here is where it gets even more difficult, add the romance, mystique and/or bling of DCOE Webers...is it really worth it, sorry, I must be enjoying messing with the subject

for what it is worth (might not be much)...I look at the DCOE's as part of a package deal

15 inch wheels
suspension mods ???? optional
upgrade brakes and rotor (radial mount Wilwood) with new lines, eliminate booster with dual master cylinders mounted in scuttle or new reverse mount pedals with dual master cylinders (with remote reservoirs), resize caliper pistons and master cylinders to maintain or improve brake bias and/or add proportioning valve

install DCOE's

go better and stop better

if going with the new pedals, go with a hydraulic clutch release bearing and master cylinder with remote reservoir

how about that for definitive and dangerous advice , oh by the way...just my opinion and really not worthy of an argument with y'all who think I am crazy

PS block mounted distributor would determine design/type of intake manifold

[vandor]

> You get used to it, and the pedal feel is terrific.

I did not get used to it in 3 months, even with 10% larger discs (and thus more leverage) and several pad compounds.
It was a huge PITA to drive it like that. Plus there is no way my wife could have driven it like that, she could not even have gotten close to locking up the wheels in a panic stop.

[70spider]

One last thought on this, what about a remote booster, http://www.mpbrakes.com/techtalk/booste ... mpartments. If the battery gets moved to the trunk and the overflow bottle changed and placed where the battery was would allow a space on the firewall for a remote booster. Just a thought I am by no means a fabricator, but something to set my Spider apart would be cool.