Shaving the block, 2L

[bradartigue]

Nonsense. Measure a few dozen "euro" heads before you make a statement like this.

But Brad... isn't there that very rare car that was only sold by that special dealer deep in the heart of Italy that had a special "euro" head, with special "euro" cams, special "euro" carbs, and a special "euro" exhaust that produced a gazillion horsepower whilst still running at >30mpg. I think it was the Spider Unicorn Edition?

A

Apparently they made all kinds of things they didn't sell in the USA. Probably have "euro" springs as well. I've never understood these myths, FIAT wasn't some bespoke car builder. If they could have received orders for 600,000 Spiders they would have built 600,000 of them. All basically the same car for 18 years. The only engine parts differences you find are when they ran out of something and used a substitute (e.g. Solexes instead of Webers). They have an amazing story without all of this "special" stuff going on.

[bradartigue]

get an engine head from fiat 132 1600(1585ccm, not 1592ccm), 1800 or supermirafiori 1600, argenta 1600 (argenta 100), ritmo 105, regata 100s... that will significantly increase compression ratio without shaving the block. you should be able to find some of these in sweden

euro heads and cams? well i don't know what fiat did to decrease power so much for US market, but when you were getting less than 100hp from fuel injected 2 litre 124's, over the pond we got 122hp in our 132's and argentas. fortunately, US spec fiats are very rare and far between over here. to anyone looking to increase HP without spending too much cash - buy an engine from european fiat

Euro FIAT 500s get 13HP out of 430ccs but the USA version gets 160HP out of 1400ccs. How come the Euro version only gets 13HP? Must be the alternator they use.

Besides the basic block and head they (the 124 Spider and 132 Argenta) aren't the same car. Some of you may notice this, the 124 Spider is a convertible built by pininfarina, resembling a Ferrari California Spyder. The 124 Spider is an iconic sports car. The 132 is a sedan and the primary styling feature is it has headlights. More seriously, do a little searching: fuel injected Spiders used 8.1:1 CR pistons. The 132 has 9.0:1 CR pistons 1981, the first year where the HP was 122 with Bosch L-Jetronic. It also had far more advanced ignition system that I think FIAT called a Digiplex. If you pull your 2000FI block today and put 9.0:1 pistons and a digital ignition, then slightly higher flowing injectors and remove the emissions control equipment you'll get 122HP.

[BoHejlskov]

After considering all answers (thank you all) I decided to rebuild to stock. 122 isn't all that bad. Thanks!

[djape1977]

in my neck of the woods you get a complete engine for 2-300$ so from that point of view, it doesn't make sense to open the engine, change pistons, injectors etc.
also, cost of used head off a 1600 or 1800 engine is lower than cost of machining the block. 50-100$
price in sweden might be slightly higher, but not by much

i've done such conversions several times, and only once had taken the car to dyno. result - 125hp on the wheels. head off 1800, standard 112hp flat top pistons 132 2000 block. gues that would be more like 135BHP, if it was measured on the flywheel.
if you done that to 122hp engine, you should end up with well over 130hp at the wheels, which is plenty enough for a light car as 124 spider, and if you femove the US spec bumpers which are about 70kilos, you'll feel as if you have gained couple more HP

one thing you will need with any engine with increased compression is high quality head gasket.

[bradartigue]

After considering all answers (thank you all) I decided to rebuild to stock. 122 isn't all that bad. Thanks!

Good call - 122HP is a nice, fast spider.

[BoHejlskov]

Djape1977 wrote:
in my neck of the woods you get a complete engine for 2-300$ so from that point of view, it doesn't make sense to open the engine, change pistons, injectors etc.
also, cost of used head off a 1600 or 1800 engine is lower than cost of machining the block. 50-100$
price in sweden might be slightly higher, but not by much

Here in Sweden it is almost impossible to get hold of twincam engines or tops. Scrapped years ago. Fiat wasn't that common in Sweden as in Denmark, but even there salvage yards are ISO and effective = no rare car parts.

[djape1977]

if you ever need any parts let me know. there are busses running between sweden and serbia daily. i have sent about half ton of fiat 124, 125 and 132 parts that way.
also, join https://www.facebook.com/groups/fiat.an ... sic.parts/ there ought to be someone else from scandinavia there. we have lots of members who don't mind sharing experience

[BoHejlskov]

I'm in the group. Are you Pera?

[djape1977]

yup
there's a guy from greece who's got about half dozen heads up for sale at the moment. if he doesn't have what you need, i do

[131lover]

I have a bunch of engines and half a dozen heads, and there are still some engines and heads in people's sheds, not so hard to find if you are asking around Fiat people at least not in Sweden!

And Djape's suggestion of making the engine a bit more happier was good if your not going to touch the bottom end, perhaps ad a lightened flywheel, and why not do some simple things to increase the performance a bit without making a race car of it, even if the Argenta was a bit heavier than the spider, from what I remember driving an Argenta it was kind of dull and boring
Alf

[BoHejlskov]

I'm quite happy as it is, but thanks, both of you!

[djape1977]

argenta was at least 250kilos heavier than 124, and it had 3.73 final drive ratio. couple the same engine to 4.1 diff and viola!

[divace73]

argenta was at least 250kilos heavier than 124, and it had 3.73 final drive ratio. couple the same engine to 4.1 diff and viola!

to add to this the auto argenta had a 3.4 ratio diff, was great on the freeway, I have since gone back to 3.9 for my 2L and am happy with the compromise (I still have a 4.44 pinion and ring gear to install and try out, I imagine 1st gear will not be needed??)

[131]

to add to this the auto argenta had a 3.4 ratio diff, was great on the freeway, I have since gone back to 3.9 for my 2L and am happy with the compromise (I still have a 4.44 pinion and ring gear to install and try out, I imagine 1st gear will not be needed??)

I've got a 4.1:1 in my 131, it revs it's ring out, a 4.44 would be useless for what I want, I'd love a 3.4:1

I shaved 0.7mm off a 2 litre block as the pistons were slightly lower compression height. I've since sold them and will use a set of NOS Fiat Croma turbo pistons, which will sit slightly proud of the deck.
Shaving the block or head to try and up compression is a lot of work for little return.

[djape1977]

you are aware that pistons from croma are for engine where intake would be on RH side if mounted longitudinaly? piston pins are not centred