I need your advice on fluids.

[baltobernie]

I'm confused... The "Rotella T 15w40" I've been buying is wrong?

No, Rotella T 15W40 is approved for both gasoline and diesel engines. The "C" spec is diesel, "S" is gasoline. See the red/yellow box on the right of this link: http://www.shell.com/rotella/products/tpl-pro.html

The perfect oil for your Spider would be one that is blended using modern chemistry to perform in a flat-tappet gasoline engine, without emissions or economy concerns. There are specialty oils available (mostly online) that are blended for engines such as ours, if you are fanatical. Everything available in the oil aisle of your local store is a compromise in your Spider engine, but as I and others have said, anything with an "S" approval and the correct viscosity will be OK. You could Search the 39,000 posts on this tab alone, and not find a single-oil-related engine failure among them.

[4uall]

HOORAY!

[Fiatracertracer]

As a newbie, you can do your car a favor by getting to know one or more of the vendors that specialize in vintage Fiat parts and accessories. You have one near Hartford; Fun Imported Autos and Toys (F>I>A>T>, get it?). If you buy your routine maintenance items from vintage vendors, they will be around when you need something major.

BaltoBernie.... I took your advice and called Danny at Fun Imported Autos and Toys and he was very helpful. He will be the one replacing the Transmission, My third gear doesn't stay engaged.

(F>I>A>T>, get it? Yes... clever.

will be using 15w40 and reading more about the 20w50.

Isn't 20w50 used as racing oil?

[Frog2Spider]

Lots of talk & oil opinions!

Google 'Zinc in Oil Kieth Ancell' and read what he says. He's a certified Ferri, Fiat & Porche mechanic that now operates a import sports car restoration shop.
He claims that the commonly found 'on the shelf' oils lack the suffient amount of Zinc needed to adequately lubricant older style motors.
I believe what he says and use Joe Gibbs Conventioal 15w-50 Motor Oil.

Dave.

[Fiatracertracer]

Supplement your oil changes with a half bottle of this stuff http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additiv ... treatment/ .

STP Oil Treatment With ZDDP .... a quick and inexpensive way to add ZDDP back into your motor oil

[majicwrench]

IT would take an oil engineer to understand and know what our engines need compared to a modern engine. Or what they don't need. I would bet most of the old cars on the road are just running off the shelf oil, and they are still running. I know my Fiats have just run whatever standard oil I have around. I have many many many customers with old cars, just run modern oil. You can find all sorts of experts that tell you otherwise, and you can see by the multitude of oil/gas/coolant additives in any Big Box auto parts store that they sell plenty of "stuff" to add to your car to make it "better'.

Like a lot of things in life, you can make it as complicated or as simple as you wish to.

[Frog2Spider]

Agreed!

So keep it simple and un-complicated ...

We know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) USED to be formulated in motor oil. Right?

And, we know that the EPA mandated that the ZDDP be REMOVED from oils generally sold today. Right?

And we don't need to be a 'engineer' to know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) is a superior lubricant. Right?

And we also know that the better machinery is lubricated, the longer it will last. Right?

So, what could be less complicated than simply using a oil with ZDDP in it?

Oh sure, it might be a few dollars more, but if it increases your engine's life, the logic for using it seems simple, and un-complicated.

Just say'n,
Dave

[fredguaz]

Not to mention that a lot if not most of the modern stuff from lawn mowers to cars and motorcycles are throw away items anyway with a finite life. The manufacturers plan obscolescence into their products and don't want you to fix/restore. They want you to purchase new.
As an aside, and I hope I'm not too far off topic. We had a community garage sale today. Compared to the last one we had about 15 years ago hardly anybody showed up. The last time we had people showing up at 530 in the morning while we were setting up before the sale started at 7am. Today the first person showed up at 800a and the numbers just did not make the effort worth it. The new generation today just don't rummage like they used to. Everything today is throw away.
Sorry for the rant.

[Frog2Spider]

Not to mention that a lot if not most of the modern stuff from lawn mowers to cars and motorcycles are throw away items anyway with a finite life. The manufacturers plan obscolescence into their products and don't want you to fix/restore. They want you to purchase new.
As an aside, and I hope I'm not too far off topic. We had a community garage sale today. Compared to the last one we had about 15 years ago hardly anybody showed up. The last time we had people showing up at 530 in the morning while we were setting up before the sale started at 7am. Today the first person showed up at 800a and the numbers just did not make the effort worth it. The new generation today just don't rummage like they used to. Everything today is throw away.
Sorry for the rant.

Oh so unfortunately true !

[dom]

Agreed!

So keep it simple and un-complicated ...

We know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) USED to be formulated in motor oil. Right?

And, we know that the EPA mandated that the ZDDP be REMOVED from oils generally sold today. Right?

And we don't need to be a 'engineer' to know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) is a superior lubricant. Right?

And we also know that the better machinery is lubricated, the longer it will last. Right?

So, what could be less complicated than simply using a oil with ZDDP in it?

Oh sure, it might be a few dollars more, but if it increases your engine's life, the logic for using it seems simple, and un-complicated.

Just say'n,
Dave

If only things were so simple....
ZDDP is being reduced not removed. And too much of it is also bad. It is not really a superior lubricant but has a particular lubricant quality which is important for flat tappet cams. Sorry if I am being too picky but its just that after looking into this ZDDP issue i have not found definitive answers. For example, if the cam is not new and it is not a race engine with race springs some say that there is enough of it in modern oils and some say adding ZDDP to oil which is already formulated may be harmful. Who knows for sure.

As to the antifreeze, I thought that because our radiators are brass we are not supposed to use the newer red or orange type as it designed for aluminum rads. The older green formulation is required for brass rads even if the head is aluminum.

[Frog2Spider]

Agreed!

So keep it simple and un-complicated ...

We know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) USED to be formulated in motor oil. Right?

And, we know that the EPA mandated that the ZDDP be REMOVED from oils generally sold today. Right?

And we don't need to be a 'engineer' to know that Zinc ( ZDDP ) is a superior lubricant. Right?

And we also know that the better machinery is lubricated, the longer it will last. Right?

So, what could be less complicated than simply using a oil with ZDDP in it?

Oh sure, it might be a few dollars more, but if it increases your engine's life, the logic for using it seems simple, and un-complicated.

Just say'n,
Dave

If only things were so simple....
ZDDP is being reduced not removed. And too much of it is also bad. It is not really a superior lubricant but has a particular lubricant quality which is important for flat tappet cams. Sorry if I am being too picky but its just that after looking into this ZDDP issue i have not found definitive answers. For example, if the cam is not new and it is not a race engine with race springs some say that there is enough of it in modern oils and some say adding ZDDP to oil which is already formulated may be harmful. Who knows for sure.

As to the antifreeze, I thought that because our radiators are brass we are not supposed to use the newer red or orange type as it designed for aluminum rads. The older green formulation is required for brass rads even if the head is aluminum.

I think this guy sums it up nicely ...

ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate)

"Experts don't all agree on what damage, if any, today's new oils with lower levels of ZDDP could be causing to older engines. While I haven't personally experienced any devastating engine failures from using motor oils made to new specifications, others state that they have, and the engine damage is disturbingly rapid and severe.
In the absence of more conclusive information, I would say that using a ZDDP additive at every oil change might be a wise decision for classic car owners. I can't promise that it alone will prevent engine damage, but it certainly wouldn't hurt, considering it is an important component now missing from new oils."

—Ken Wilson, Automotive Mileposts

[bradartigue]

Also note that people seem to have an expectation that a classic car engine is going to last longer today for some reason or another. In the 1960s - and everything in your motor stopped evolving around 1966 - getting 100,000 miles from an engine was pretty amazing. Most Spider engines were/are rebuilt or replaced before that interval. I don't think some magical recipe of fluids is going to make the engine design last a whole lot longer than it would have originally. Given the tendency most owners have to buy cheap gasket/seal kits, cheap valves/bearings/rings, I wouldn't expect them to last as long today as they would have from new.

If you buy good fluids and you drive like you care about the car (which has nothing to do with going fast, its how you shift/transition/brake/etc.) and it will last a long time. Drive like a teenager, speed shift, bog it down at 1500 RPM for hours, and it will have problems regardless of whether you used Auto Zone oil or Royal Purple.

[rjkoop]

HOORAY!

Jay,
Where did you buy the Rotella T 15W40? I see this at Cdn Tire.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rotel ... 7939p.html

Not sure it's the same.

Richard

[4uall]

Yup, that's the place. You can also get it at Partsource which is the automotive chain of Canadian Tire.

[nibbes123]

Wal Mart and Princess Auto sell it also.