Spider Electric conversion

[SpiderCake]

Howdy all,

I've got my hard hat on because the whiz of wrenches past my head from the purist are getting louder. Bare with me and I'll explain. I loved my 73 1800 back in the day and I'm back on the market looking for another Spider. Working in the tech industry and being a grease monkey has some interesting side affects. Solar energy has become a new passion and I've had a electric motorcycle conversion project on the back burner for some time. Since moving to southern California I really wanted to get another Spider. Yesterday I began my research to build an electric Spider and I'm here to start the discussion about the pros and cons with you good knowledgeable people. Ya ya ya, the cost, the range, the time, all of that stuff in the cons column but It really doesn't matter. I just want to do it. I think I have some good ideas "borrowed" from today's production electric cars and few tricks of my own.

Where I really think I can benefit from this board is the input from the wide range of model and year owners. There are many deciding factors in what year I need to get, weight, aftermarket part availability and more I'm sure you will help me come up with. A non running car would be the best find, something that lived most of its days in a dry climate, I'm already starting to browse local auctions.

The range issue is a big one, if I want to take trips in this car I will need to solve this. I think I can solve this taking lead from the Chevy Volt. Small gas generator to charge batteries while driving or parked. This concept allows for gaining enough distance to get to your final destination to start charging from another source. But I think 100 miles per charge is going to be possible and is perfect for my work and running around town.

So there you have it, I'm starting to collect data on different models so any suggestions are appreciated. This will be my official project thread and will post my work here. First thing is first, time to find my new Spider.

Thanks!

SpiderCake.

UPDATES

10-23-13

Here she is!

76 with 86K original miles, little to no rust, original paint and after a few hours ready to drive. Interior is ok, dash is in decent to good shape, seats are toast and are cracking and flaking. Seat covers till I'm done with the EV conversion. Top is not bad but the rear window is toast, plan a cheap fix for now then a new top later. Hey its San Diego, when am I going to put the top up anyway?



Reducing weight

Looking for some data to plan weight reduction, let me know if you have any info on the following

-Fiberglass body parts, anyone have actual numbers on weight differences?

[kmead]

This is an interesting read:

http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm

One approach to the problem

[aj81spider]

Here's someone else who has done something similar.

http://www.rusbaevents.com/cgi-bin/Veve ... version.pl

[azruss]

my 1st post didnt take, so here it is again.
one of our fellow thinktank members has an electric spider. Dont remember much about other than i think he used powerplant out a forklift and mated to the 5-speed.
I have neither the time, money, or inclination to build such a monster. If it did, it would be an electric/propane hybrid. I am concerned about the impact on our current grid if everybody and their dog goes to electric cars. I've been involved with a couple of the big government funded solar farms in the area. Cant say i have a warm fuzzy feeling about this as a good future solution. (6 square miles of glass solar panels in an area prone to summer hail storms).
As far as a car choice, the newer spiders are a little beefier, heavier rear end, and higher ground clearance (might be needed for all the added battery weight). The difference is so little, i think condition of the chassis would win the day.

[TX82FIAT]

Here is another spider conversion for reference.

http://www.evalbum.com/1131

I would agree that getting a body in the best shape possible would be the starting point since outside of bumbers these cars all weigh about the same. I'll admit i tossed the idea of an electric Spider around myself. The limitation of battery technology presented the first problem. The batteries to keep the weight down and obtain any real distance are very, very expensive (lithium). Outside of the battery piece there is a second consideration that people often forget about. Torque! You will need to custom create a plate to mate the electric motor to the transmission. The electric motor will produce much higher rotational force on your transmission and rear differential than they are designed to handle.

My conclusion was put in a more durable transmission, drive shaft, differntial along with front and rear suspension modifcations to support the battery weight and maintain some manuverability. The current lead acid batteries that you would find in a golf car will only last a couple years and still cost 2K to 3K. When I put pen to paper I did not have the time, funds or expertise to pull this off.

If you do it please document it like some of these other folks have but with more specific details related to modifications to stock components to make things work. The answer may be large-format NiMH batteries (i.e., 25 amp-hours or more) but these larger size Nickel Car batteries are not being produced because of either cash flow to create the assembly line or Chevron has a controlling interest in the patent. You decide...

[SpiderCake]

Alright, glad to see input coming in so quickly!

Kmead, That is interesting but a little more utilitarian than I'm going for =]

TX82FIAT, I'm planning to engineer this thing as modular as possible so I can start with larger traditional batteries then move to newer technology. Modified airbag system might be a good place to start to handle the additional weight without adding too much weight itself. A few companies already have plates made for other fiat models, I may be able to convience them to work with me on a plate. Plus it doesn't hurt to have many friends in the fabrication business with C&C and lathes.

Azruss, I'm on the same page. I plan to add some permanent solar cells plus a couple of panels that sit over the roof while parked that you either fold up behind the seats or leave at home. Southern California gets a little sunshine you know. I'm also researching small generators that run off of alternative fuels.

Thanks again for links and resources. If anyone comes across a good car anywhere south of Bakersfield please let me know. Even if I have to spend more to get a running car I can get an idea of the condition of the rest of the car. Then sell the motor.

~SC

[djape1977]

if you plan on using it as a daily driver, first thing to go will be gearbox and then rear end. they barely cope with around 100hp from stock engines

[burgandy81]

Fun idea!

A couple of my dreams for an electric spider. Don't really know enough to understand what is possible.

1. Power plant. I envision a very small turbo diesel (Smart car?) as a generator charging a traditional battery pack and also a large capacitor to help smooth out power demands. In my fantasy world the generator is sized so that minimum output is enough to keep a car moving at 50 Km (+/- 35mph) on level ground. Again in my fantasy world the capacitor would absorb any excess charge during low load and be available for discharge when demand is greater. Do driving power demands cycle in a way that makes this feasible?

2. Drive train. Remove everything and install two small(er) electric motors where the differential currently resides. Both motors then connected to rear wheels through modern CV half shafts. If this is even possible it would give an independent rear suspension and the ability to control wheel speed independently, LSD! Secondary benefits are reduced weight and a nice space to hide batteries in the transmission and drive shaft tunnel. I assume that electric motors cannot spin fast enough to direct drive or someone would have done this?? Anyone?

I don't think any of this is useful, i just couldn't help myself as I have been thinking about this for a while.

Best of luck with your project! Looking forward to updates.

Cheers,

Jordan

[SpiderCake]

Djape1977, on the roadmap for sure.

burgandy81, some of your ideas are not so much fantasy. The generator idea is in my plans for sure. How its mounted and used is the big question. I would love a biodiesel gen but finding anything small enough is becoming a bit difficult. Some have suggested building a small trailer to tow with a gen. At first I didn't think I would want that but until i test the impact of towing weight vs the charge it produces I'm not writing it off. I'll have a charge port at the back of the car so a gen could easily be integrated.

Thanks,

~SC

[SpiderCake]

Reviving this thread. Buggy is sold and I'm looking at 3 cars this weekend. 2 78's and an 81. I want a running car to so I can get a little use out of it and for suspension upgrades and tweaks. Hoping to have conversion done before summer of 2014.

~SC

[baltobernie]

The Miata is a popular conversion; maybe check the Web for examples of cost, range, etc. in a similarly-sized car.

Now to make an evil grin face and suggest that if you took the $15-20k it will take to build a unique but mediocre electric car ..... and instead build yourself a stunning, sweet-performing, twin-carb, small-bumper wailer. I'm just sayin' ....

[BEEK]

i will be keeping a eye on my wifes prius, if it mates with my fiat we will have a problem

[SpiderCake]

I am scheduling the pickup of a 76 tomorrow. It begins

~SC

[azruss]

I like the idea of direct drive. 60 mph is a mile a minute. lets assume your tires have a 22" diameter. This gives you a 5.76 foot circumference. this means a direct drive motor would only be turning 917 RPM.

[peggus]

I am scheduling the pickup of a 76 tomorrow. It begins

~SC

Congratulation!

I converted one a few years ago: http://www.evalbum.com/1131. Its still my daily driver, I just wish I had more time to improve the Fiat itself.

I'm in Pasadena, if you need any pointers, shoot me an email.

peter dot gabrielsson at gmail dot com

My blog is in a pretty sad state right now. The wayback machine at least lets you view the images:
http://web.archive.org/web/201202282002 ... lemon.com/?