164 Engine?, your thoughts ...

[dinosabella]

I know it may sound sacrilegious, but has anyone ever heard of the V6 from the Alfa 164 S ever being shoe horned into a Fiat Spider? I have seen a few Alfa Spiders online with this mod and they sound pretty amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/diablo3724# ... bM6uFa57lg

Well now that I think of it, its not totally sacrilegious since the 164 was designed and build under Fiat at the time.

Just a thought.....

Dino

[v6spider]

Dino,

One man's sacrilege is another mans joy! I say do what makes you happy!
What is the horsepower gains if you were to do the swap? Certainly is a nice looking v6.

Cheers!
Rob

[dinosabella]

for the v6 24 valve built in the mid-90s, it produces roughly 220hp in stock form. And is apparently easy to bump up in power. However I think that 220hp in the tiny Spider is more than enough. Just a thought for now. I just finished law school and awaiting to start all the bar exams. So for now I'm an indebted dreamer. But it would be cool to build an Italian resto-mod car.

[azygoustoyou]

Wow that car sounded good. I love the mod's on it too. I would love to drive it.

[So Cal Mark]

I was planning on doing this to a coupe, using the Milano transaxle. It would be best to use a 3.0 rather than a 2.5 but the 3.0s are much harder to find

[BEEK]

even more strange.. im working on a 6g72 transplant for my scorpion, in twin turbo form it makes 330hp right out of the oem box, with minor modifications 500+ is a reality. now 500hp in a scorpion is a reality in death. but...... the retrofit has already been started. im starting with a 220hp n/a motor. building mounts and such. yes im strange but what the heck , i cant find a 24v 4ohc v6 for less, i have 6 of them btw im using dodge stealth valve covers which does not name a motor manufacturer.

[dinosabella]

post pictures!

[v6spider]

Pretty please post pics BEEK...

Rob

[BEEK]

i will, in the off topic section i guess. i figure its the proper place

[BEEK]

im currently sorting out the wiring harness with the factory diagram, weeding out the non efi wires from the harness, making a stand alone harnes like the bosch one in the fiats

[italisti]

im currently sorting out the wiring harness with the factory diagram, weeding out the non efi wires from the harness, making a stand alone harnes like the bosch one in the fiats

Call me misinformed, but which engine are you using? I got dodge stealth but car uses the engine you are retrofitting?

[italisti]

I know it may sound sacrilegious, but has anyone ever heard of the V6 from the Alfa 164 S ever being shoe horned into a Fiat Spider? I have seen a few Alfa Spiders online with this mod and they sound pretty amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/diablo3724# ... bM6uFa57lg

Well now that I think of it, its not totally sacrilegious since the 164 was designed and build under Fiat at the time.

Just a thought.....

Dino

By the way, I agree this is a great idea and I don't believe that it is sacrilegious either as long as the engine is Italian, your car won't become a half-breed. Not to throw off anyones ideas! BEEK, I think that is a great plan and I can't downplay your ingenuity... Anything you can do to get that Scorpion going strong! I am a huge Lancia fan as well and I think that the Scorpion is way under appreciated and there needs to be more out there especially on the tracks!

Besides, I myself even toyed with the idea of the Nissan 240sx SR20det because it also seems that it would fit easily, is readily available with the turbo and would be cheaper altogether to find parts, turbos, whatever high performance you want.. they even CRATE the engines here in Long Beach strait from JAPAN and sell them for around $400 with only 40k on them! ... anyway not on my coupe! Maybe on a future spider project..

Most of me however believes all Italian engineering and should stay that way, which is why being an ALFA dude, not knowing what I was up against with the belt-driven FIAT engine made me want to throw one of my friend's Alfa 2L or 1750 in my car.. it even mounts similarly to the FIAT and looks similar just a little bigger and exhaust on the opposite side... chain driven, can get some great hp and torque without a turbo and has at least 4 different options for fuel delivery SPICA INJECTION, WEBER CARB, DELORTO CARB, MAYBE SOLEX if you can find it..

For those who are not aware, here in California, if we don't have to smog our cars, we tend to go crazy with the options of our unrestricted power we can implant into our toys....

My second idea is the ALL ITALIAN MASERATI BI-TURBO engine in the FIAT. Again, great engine small block v6 2.0-2.8l between 18-24 valves. Can be boosted with better more modern turbo setups... Probably get over 300hp and a crap-load of torque without a problem!
Don't know about everywhere else in the country, but you can find these cars stashed in the back of a mechanic's yard all over LA still in great shape. Even if the cars are sold in running condition out here, I have seen them go for between $2000 and $500 with no rust and the old parts could easily pay for the engine! Come on, how great would it be to tell people your FIAT has MASERATI guts! ... but what do I know? Just another dream...

Meanwhile I do look forward to BEEK's pictures!

[pastaroni34]

Alfa V6: I have both the 12v and 24v engines sitting in my shop. Fitting them to a Fiat Spider is not an easy task but it can certainly be done. I love the 24v, and it would be my engine of choice for such a conversion but I say that as someone who has a machine shop and can make all the parts I need.. such as.. oil pan, flywheel, exhaust manifolds, air boxes, etc.. 24v parts are expensive, and the heads are taller, making it even more difficult to fit (and heavier). The 12v is cheap and more compact, plus it was longitudinally mounted so you can get an oil pan, and manifolds. The down side is you only have 160hp (or 200 if you have 3 liter)..

With either engine though you still have to solve the transmission problem because Alfa never mated a v6 directly to a longitudinally mounted transmission, they only had a rear mounted transaxle, a whole different can of worms. You could make an adapter plate for a transmission. Expect that to be another $1000.

Fun projects though. I'd like to see it done. I think its more suitable do drop the drivetrain from a 164 into a Scorpion though. One day I might have a go at it.. even have a 6 speed box for my 24v motor

[italisti]

Man a 6 speed is really impressive! How did you fab that??

I actually have heard of someone successfully using the Alfa V6 in a fiat x1/9 though...

Check the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOSPIJy ... er&list=UL

[MrWampus]

I think you would absolutely replace the tranny along with the engine. I don't know about anyone else, but my little 5-speed is so high reving that when it rains, I can hardly keep the back wheels on the ground. I can sit in one place in 1st, shift to 2nd and start creeping forward and then bark them in 3rd before it stalls out because I'm only moving forward about 5 mph. That's with 102HP. What would it do with 160 or 200 or God forbid 300HP?

I have fantasized about trying to shoehorn a Subaru WRX boxer engine, 6-speed tranny and AWD drive train into a Spider though. That would be awesome! WAY too wide though with the boxer setup but all-wheel drive and 250HP in a 2300lb spider would be unbelievable. Scary/awesome.