bottom end rattle.

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gjones1967
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider
Location: Spring, Texas (Houston area)

bottom end rattle.

Postby gjones1967 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:31 pm

I just bought my first Spider. it is a 79 but with an 1800 engine. Head and cams were off (obviously for a reason but the PO bought it that way). I rebuilt the top end and started the engine and on higher revs I could here a rattle from the bottom end. As I pulled the car out of the garage after rebuilding the brakes the rattle got loader and the oil light flickered so I cut the engine. I have resigned myself to the fact I have to pull the motor. any ideas what I should replace while it is out?

Any memebers from Spring TX that could recommend as shop to do the rebuild in case I decide not to tackle it myself?
Graeme Jones.


1978 Fiat Spider
1979 Fiat Spider
1986 Porsche 944
1976 MGB
2009 Honda Accord
2016 Toyota Tundra.

piperstan10
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:02 pm
Your car is a: spider 1973

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby piperstan10 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:07 pm

Tough question to answer.
Do you have a bearing knock or a rattle?
Do you have any metal chips or shavings in the oil?
Do you have any oil leaks?
what was the oil pressure?
As a minimum I would replace oil pump if everything else looks good. Also water pump, pan gasket etc
then I would plastiguage the rod and main bearings And examine the crank journals for scoring. also the crank seal surface for scoring.
don’t forget the auxiliary shaft bearings you will regret forever if the aux shaft seal leaks oil.
Also look at the cylinder walls for a ridge at the top. An indication of cylinder wear. Rent a bore gauge and mike the pistons to establish if you need to bore the cylinders or if honing will be adequate.

Bottom line is if you don,t, know the history of the engine it,s probably due for a rebuild.

If you’re mechanically inclined, engine assembly is not hard just follow instructions from one of the many manuals available. Find a reputable machine shop to clean,inspect bore etc.

also if you remove the engine, machine and balance flywheel and replace clutch, pressure plate and throwers out bearing.

That is just a start!

Stan

gjones1967
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider
Location: Spring, Texas (Houston area)

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby gjones1967 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:37 pm

Thanks Stan.

When I rebuilt the head the cylinders were worn. I did not notice the oil pressure as I killed the engine pretty quick. It was more a rattle than a knock first only apparent on higher revs but got worse. I may check out the spare engine that I have and see what sort of condition that is in, although at least I know the top end is good on the one on the car. I was careful to re seat all the valves and thoroughly clean all the ports. I should have taken the time to do a compression test.

I checked auto Ricambi and it looks like a rebuild kit is around $600, which includes pistons. I intend to keep the car and don't mind investing that kind of money into it, but if I was going that far I gues having the cylinders machines would be a good idea.
Graeme Jones.


1978 Fiat Spider
1979 Fiat Spider
1986 Porsche 944
1976 MGB
2009 Honda Accord
2016 Toyota Tundra.

User avatar
riverdadd
Patron 2018
Patron 2018
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:16 am
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat Spider 1977 Alfa Spider

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby riverdadd » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:41 pm

R U sure its in lower block? anything that is bolted to engine can rattle at various rpm ranges. before you tear it all apart again, double check all parts are bolted tight, especially exhaust shield, air cleaner housing, dip stick tube, accel linkages.....ect

.....If it is a rod knock, then u will have to tear it down anyways, 1 more start and search won't hurt. might save you a headache, in long run........not sure a compression test will reveal a worn rod bearing. hope this helps, good luck

riverdadd

gjones1967
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider
Location: Spring, Texas (Houston area)

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby gjones1967 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:20 pm

Pretty sure it is the bottom end. Also as I did not have the air filter assembly connected the engine was breathing quite a lot. You could visibly see blue ish fumes coming from the breather
, which I would imagine to be a bad thing. I could also smell burned oil
Graeme Jones.


1978 Fiat Spider
1979 Fiat Spider
1986 Porsche 944
1976 MGB
2009 Honda Accord
2016 Toyota Tundra.

piperstan10
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:02 pm
Your car is a: spider 1973

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby piperstan10 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Well, smoke from crankcase breather and etc paints a different story which indicates dissembling short block. Could be worn oil rings, spun bearing, head gasket. Ring blow by would account for crankcase smoke and crank case pressure. Did you remember to install the two small hollow metal gallery pins in the block when you reinstalled head gasket? These channel oil from block low end to cams while also help position head gasket. Without the pins, oil could migrate to cylinder and reduce oil pressure.

The 124 engine has a high flow low pressure oil flow. So flickering oil light could indicate bad oil pump or worn bearings. That is why you should always replace pump when you work on the bottom end. And also critical to gauge piston and crank bearings to be sure within spec - too tight and bearings will seize, too loose, low oil pressure.

Just some thoughts

gjones1967
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider
Location: Spring, Texas (Houston area)

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby gjones1967 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:02 pm

I believe those pins were in place. I am about to start on the 2 liter engine that I have as a spare. It is newer and was a FI engine. I will bare in mind what you have said when I rebuild it thanks.
Graeme Jones.


1978 Fiat Spider
1979 Fiat Spider
1986 Porsche 944
1976 MGB
2009 Honda Accord
2016 Toyota Tundra.

JohnGalt
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:06 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider 124

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby JohnGalt » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:50 pm

I've never messed with a fuel injected 2 liter but my '79 carbureted 2 liter runs great using the intake from a 1.8 liter and weber 34 carb.

I wonder if you can use the rebuilt heads from the 1.8 liter or at least switch the 2 liter to carbureted using the 1.8 liter's intake.

gjones1967
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Spider
Location: Spring, Texas (Houston area)

Re: bottom end rattle.

Postby gjones1967 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:06 pm

I have been told on here to take the head and intake off the 1800 and put it on the 2 liter just as you said. I have a 4, 2 1 exhaust manifold to go on it as well and intend installing an electric fuel pump. I also have an intake which is not the smog type with all the color coded little hoses, so they are going.
Graeme Jones.


1978 Fiat Spider
1979 Fiat Spider
1986 Porsche 944
1976 MGB
2009 Honda Accord
2016 Toyota Tundra.


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