1979 Preservation/Improvements

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Slartibartfaster
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Your car is a: 1979 Spider

1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:26 pm

Starting a thread to track efforts to preserve and make moderate performance improvements to my 79 Spider. I'm the second owner, having just bought it from the original owner of 38 years. I was looking for a project with no bodywork needs - I have limited mechanic skills, and I'm not afraid of diving in and figuring things out along the way, but I'm not interested in cutting metal, welding, or paying for new paint.

I'm in Ohio -not many Spiders still on the road here at all, let alone rust-free. My car spent it's life in northern Ohio and was never a daily driver, so accumulated few miles. It's very original, no rust, the roof was replaced the first year under warranty but literally looks brand new. Original interior including carpet and padding, seats are perfect, no dash cracks. Came with a binder full of receipts documenting an actual 23,000 miles since new. PO drove it a bit in summers and otherwise stored it away...never seen salt, etc. He was very good at getting maintenance done and clearly loved the car. Truth be told, it was a much better car than I had expected to find. It was priced accordingly, but I think we settled on a fair deal for both of us. Still more than I had planned to spend originally, but as they say, when it comes to old cars, buy the best you can afford to get the cheapest overall cost of ownership.

As a potential investment (okay, not investment, but at least not a pure expense) it has good and bad aspects. Low miles, one owner and very well maintained but not a very good year. 79 performance is the worst (at least it's a 49 state car), and was a high-production year. It seems that 71's-74's are the sweet spot if you're market conscious. In the end I decided on this car because it has such potential. I won't do anything that is not reversible by a future owner, but intakes and carbs apparently make a huge difference - more on this later.

Here it is in it's new home :)
Image

And that beautiful interior...

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'79 Spider
'15 Tesla Model S85D
'14 Santa Fe
'17 Civic

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chrisg
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Your car is a: 1971 FIAT

Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby chrisg » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Perfect mats !

My general recipe for a carb'd Spider 2000 is 1800 (ideally '74?) intake with a better carb (I like the 34DMSA that was stock for the '74, 34 ADF is popular, as is 32/36 DFEV). The carburetor will require some minor either linkage fiddling, spacers, or re-routing a coolant line or finding a key-on hot wire, depending on which one. None requires a PhD in Physics. Along with the intake, you'd probably get rid of all of the vacuum/emissions type plumbing unless you need it...well, actually, I guess if you need it, just don't read anything i write here.

Changing the exhaust to one of the factory 4-2-1 type is also a good thing.

You could also liven it up a bit by putting a fresh 1.8 head on it, and of course dual carburetors are an option in there...

But first, change the timing belt, check the structural integrity of the door hinge attachment points (on the doors) and the seat backs & then remain mindful of all three areas. Keep a spare ignition pickup and HEI ICM in the glovebox.

Have fun with it. When you find them, rust belt area Fiats that have been kept out of the salt are usually great!
Chris Granju
Knoxville, TN
'71 FIAT 124BS (pretty), '72 FIAT 124BC,'76 FIAT 128 Wagon(ratbeast), '85 Bertone X 1/9, '70 124BC (project), 79 X1/9 (hot rod in rehab), '73 124BS (2L, mean), '74 124 Special TC, '73 124CS, '73 124 Familiare

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nelsonj
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Your car is a: 1972 Spider 124

Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby nelsonj » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:51 pm

Looks very nice - thanks for posting and congratulations. Looks like you have power windows. Wow.

Per the previous post, the a new carb and manifold will give you (by far) the biggest bang for the buck. I have a 32/36 on my 1800 and I really like it.

Check to see if you already have a 4-2-1 exhaust. My understanding is some 79's have it and some don't. If you already have it, you're set. Also, you might want to get a "test pipe" or a new catalytic converter (if the car has one). Some of the original cats were very restrictive and heavy.

Personally, with only 23,000 mile on it, I'd stop there and enjoy the car. No need to tear apart an engine with such low miles.

Make sure you have the rubber "donut" that connects the transmission to the drive shaft inspected. If it is original or has drying and cracking you need to replace it IMMEDIATELY. This is an important maintenance items that isn't easy to see, but if it fails while driving, you'll drop the drive shaft and very, very bad things can happen next.

As for other upgrades, I'm not sure if the 79 has relays for the front headlights. If it doesn't, the relays make the lights a lot brighter and will help your ignition switch last (much longer). I also put in diodes for the main illumination of my dash and they are much brighter than my stock lights.

Again, congrats, welcome, and please keep posting.

Peace.
Out.
Image
Simi Valley, California
Spider 1800
Romans 10:9

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:41 am

Thanks. My intake and carb swap is actually well underway! I'll try to post an update today.
'79 Spider
'15 Tesla Model S85D
'14 Santa Fe
'17 Civic

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:20 pm

SO, I secured an 1800 Intake and 32/26dfev Weber. EGR and associated plumbing are all boxed up with the original carb and intake for the next owner. Copying my update from another thread..Having completed most of the intake/carb swap and climbed partway up a steep learning curve..

- I suggest putting the whole car on jack stands for the work - some of the manifold bolts were more accessible from underneath and you're going to spend a lot of time leaning over the car. This would have killed my back otherwise.

- Even with draining the suggested amount (1 gallon) of coolant, when you loosen the intake manifold there will still be coolant leaking out, especially from the coolant line at the right end of the manifold for the water choke. Wish I'd had a bunch of shop towels stuffed under the manifold.

-I've read many posts about how hard it is to get the intake out even after you get all the nuts/bolts off. This was a total pain, until I decided the studs had to come out too. My car had two studs and the others were bolts. Since the original intake is so wide it is blocked from pulling out by the timing belt rear cover (if you still have one). Removing the mounting studs allows you to slide the intake to the right. Used the 'two nut' method to back them out. Be prepared for more coolant leakage from the stud holes.

- as for the carb, I ordered the k-518 kit put together by Redline. Shop around online -prices vary. Parts needed to connect throttle to rod are included, along with many unneeded bits for other installations. Importantly, I ended up having to take the top off the carb for troubleshooting and found metal shavings and brass 'sand' in the float bowl of whatever cheap metal the carb is cast from. Not impressive QC from Weber. Also the nut holding the linkage to the throttle shaft kept coming loose, and the little tab that bends over the nut is a joke so I'm trying some thread locker to see if it will hold.

-Finally, During my first post-installation test drive, the secondary idle jet and holder fell out somewhere on the highway. I have invested a lot of time learning about my carb trying to troubleshoot this problem...wish I had invested that time and dismantled the carb and learned something before rushing into installation. Not sure I'll ever learn this lesson though.

-Most importantly, it was worth it! Still working on the tune, but I'm amazed at what a difference this made in the car. Need better brakes now.
'79 Spider
'15 Tesla Model S85D
'14 Santa Fe
'17 Civic

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:42 pm

I still need to figure out what size to order for the secondary idle jet on the 32/36 and get a new holder for it too. As a patch I pulled the secondary holder and jet from the old carb and was surprised to find that they fit in the new carb (old jet holder had a small O ring that the new carb holder did not - left that off and it fits nicely).

Went through the basic idle screw/mixture.idle adjustments and was please to actually be able to hear the idle smooth out. Haven't checked the spark plugs yet, but it is running smoothly and pulls nicely from stop to highway speeds. Feeling good about that!
'79 Spider
'15 Tesla Model S85D
'14 Santa Fe
'17 Civic

Slartibartfaster
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Biturbo wheel Qs

Postby Slartibartfaster » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:20 am

Springtime is around the corner - much to do!

I now have a set of Biturbo wheels (14x6) waiting to be mounted.. which is raising some questions for me.
Offset is stamped as+ 6 on three of them and +11 on one - they were sold as a set and I didn't think I'd need to ask if they were identical offsets - lesson learned. I figure I can put the 11 offset on the back w/o the original 5mm spacer and keep the spacer on the other side - so I'll have +11 on both rears. Any red flags there?

Two specific questions...
1. My 79 13x5 steelies do not have any markings I can find specifying offset and I've found conflicting specs online. Is there a definitive source or collective agreement on the factory offset? Given the stresses of Ohio roads on the front end I don't want to screw up the suspension geometry. I've ordered 195/60/14s to mount on them so I'm gaining 10% in section width and losing 5% in sidewall. I know that will impart more impact to the suspension. At least the new wheels and tires should be lighter (guessing three pounds).

2. I'll need longer wheel bolts - any guidance on what length I should buy? I've seen some of you have switched to lugs but I don't know what the advantage is.

JohnMc
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Your car is a: 1970 Fiat 124

Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby JohnMc » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:42 pm

Fiat has a weird bolt pattern - 4 by 98. Ensure that the Bi Turbo wheels also has that pattern. Back in 1972 I broke off a wheel bolt by trying to install a 4 by 100 pattern wheel. I do understand that there are adapters that can be purchased to change your bolt pattern. But presumably you know this and are rolling your eyes at this :).

I have gone to wheel studs I got from Bayless and open end lug nuts from EZAccessory - the mag style lug nuts worked with my 13 inch mag style wheels. But would have no clue as to length you would need or if they would work.

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:13 pm

Thanks John - no eye rolling here! Fortunately the wheels are a great direct fit so no worries on the pattern (tried one on just to be sure!) Can I ask why you converted to studs/lugnuts?
I can think of two minor benefits - easier to center aftermarket wheels on the hub if you have to remove the pins, and perhaps to avoid wear and tear on the female threads in the wheel hubs. The biturbo wheels fit the hub center exactly so I'm not worried about mis-centering.

JohnMc
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby JohnMc » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 pm

http://bimmertips.com/wheel-studs-vs-bo ... dvantages/ Do not know if absolutely true. Always thought it was more secure and better torque with studs and nuts.

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:27 am

Overdue updates... let's see if I can remember how to post Imgur photos..


Image

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:51 am

So, the Biturbo's are cleaned up and mounted...50mm bolts from Midwest Bayless. One of the wheels needed truing which was an unexpected $100 expense -keep that in mind when buying used wheels. I guess I'm lucky it was only one.

Tires are 195/60R-14 General Altimax RT43. Yes, they are all-seasons but I'm very happy with them (have experience with them when I replaced the horrible OEM Hanooks on a new Civic last year.) The improvement over the 10 year old dunlops is dramatic and the relatively soft sidewalls and 14" wheels are a great compromise...feel just right. Not too hard for the Spider's limited structure and our crappy roads, but still very grippy. Low-speed steering effort is better and they fit with zero rubbing. And they are the lightest tire I could find in this size! Between the wheels and tires I've lost about 3.5 pounds of un-sprung weight at each corner. Both ride and handling are hugely better.

Over the winter I pulled the seats and cleaned the hell out of every thing I could reach. Kudo's again to the PO, it was not that big a job. Then I spent several hours giving the car a good polishing and waxing as well... looking ok!

Image

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RRoller123
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Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
Location: SAGAMORE BEACH, MA USA

Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby RRoller123 » Sun May 06, 2018 4:48 pm

I believe that the General Altimax 195/60-14 is the direct replacement for the Sumitomo HTR/ASP01, which I use but could no longer get :!: , Sumitomo no longer offers them. But it seems apparently that the molds were sold to General. GREAT Tires! They hold like rubber glue to the pavement, and give a pretty good ride at about 29 or 30 psi.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle

Slartibartfaster
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Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sun May 20, 2018 12:13 pm

Time for a couple of quick updates...
The Weber 32/36DFEV kit came with a plastic elbow for the crankcase ventilation line to the air cleaner box. The inside diameter is too small - significantly smaller than the CCV tube. Just replaced it with an electric conduit elbow. Had to drill the hole in the air cleaner box. I have no idea how significant this is, but it made me happy...
Image


New vs. old...
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Slartibartfaster
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Your car is a: 1979 Spider

Re: 1979 Preservation/Improvements

Postby Slartibartfaster » Sun May 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Finally got around to replacing the OE catalytic converter...

I considered swapping in a 'test' pipe...but then started reading so that was out. Not interested in driving a stinky, polluting car.
The car still has fewer than 24k miles so the converter couldn't have been too 'jammed up', but everything I've read about modern converters vs old points to a significant improvement in airflow and better environmental performance of the catalyst. This is the article I found most useful: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/catalytic-converter-face-/

Which catalytic converter was the next question... I'm keeping everything I change on the car and only making bolt-on changes in case a future caretaker wants to return it to stock. This means I'm not cutting the three bolt flanges off the old converter to weld on to a new generic converter. I bought a "MagnaFlow 23501 Direct Fit Catalytic Converter" for $139 prime. I'm continually surprised how hard it is to find specific details about auto parts online - always worried about 'direct fit' replacement actually being so.

In this case - the fit was pretty great out of the box. The flanges and attach points for the springs were properly aligned relative to the old converter and the overall length whole unit was within 1/4". Image Image And, you can see light through the inlet pipe...that's got to be good, right? The old one is like a maze inside. Best of all was the unexpected weight savings! Old unit was about 15lbs, new one is only 6lbs 3oz.ImageImage

So, does it feel different? Yes - definitely a power improvement and maybe a bit better sound as well, hard to tell. I don't like hard wrenching under the car but this was no too bad...a few hours start to finish. Used copper rtv, no gaskets and let it sit for 24 hours before starting to cure. Overall well worth the $140 and time spent!
Last edited by Slartibartfaster on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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