Help me find my bearings- literally!

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felahughes
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:45 pm

Hi All

Was washing my gearbox yesterday and I heard a tap sound- and in the bottom of my washing tray I found a bearing ball:

Image

I only removed the bell housing and the turret- so in theory everything should be packed- but it definitely came from somewhere in the gearbox. Any idea where it's come from and how to get it back?


Cheers!
Last edited by felahughes on Tue May 17, 2016 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

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SP3
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Your car is a: 1966 Ducati 250 Monza
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby SP3 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:10 pm

what diameter? shift rail detent ball 'left over' from someone's previous internal adventure?

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lglade
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Your car is a: 1984 Pininfarina
Location: Mukilteo, WA

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby lglade » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:15 pm

As I understand it, there's an anti-rotation ball where the speedo drive mounts to the transmission. I was just making plans to replace the gasket and seal on mine and saw it in the manual. By chance did you remove the speedo drive and leave the ball?
Lloyd Glade- Mukilteo, WA
1984 Pininfarina Spider Azzurra
1962 Fiat 500D - wife's car
2015 Subaru Outback
2017 Ford Focus RS

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felahughes
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:43 am

It's 8.7mm diameter.

I have removed the speedo and never noticed a ball so maybe that's it.

The gearbox was working when I took it apart so it's should be something that I've "undone".

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll have a look when I get back up to the workshop.
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

djape1977
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Your car is a: 1970 fiat 124bc
Location: Belgrade, Serbia, eastern Europe

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby djape1977 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:56 am

not a speedo drive gear retainer ball, that one is like 3-4mm

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felahughes
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:41 am

Hi All Again

I'm still trying to find out where this ball came from. I removed the plate covering the detent springs and balls and I could see all three balls in place behind the springs. I'm trying to find out where else it could come have come from- I guess it could be the speedo drive ball but I can't seem to see where that is without dismantling the gearbox to removing the shaft- which I'm wanting to avoid. I had it completely rebuilt (years ago- it's been sitting unused since) so it could be just "left over" from the rebuild but that seems strange.

I measured again and it's 7.8mm diameter- which sounds big but isn't.

Any suggestions guys- would appreciate it!
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

djape1977
Posts: 985
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:08 pm
Your car is a: 1970 fiat 124bc
Location: Belgrade, Serbia, eastern Europe

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby djape1977 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:45 pm

only place that ball could have come from is input shaft bearing

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felahughes
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:23 pm

Hmm- ok. I guess that's not suppose to be possible so if it's happened then that's a sign of a bigger problem maybe. Is it possible to inspect the bearing without removing it? I looked at the video online and I guess I'd have to remove the thrust washer and circlip at least. The car's up in my workshop so I won't be able to check till next weekend. I don't have a puller so anything more means off to the transmission specialist it goes.
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

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satufiat
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Your car is a: 1981 Spider 2000

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby satufiat » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:28 pm

Maybe the countershaft Front bearing.

I just had mine apart and the inner race of the bearing typically stays on the shaft, allowing the inner race to come apart. Maybe a PO missed one of the balls during reassembly.

This is a picture from outside, there is an inner race as well, not sure if you can see it through this cage.

Image

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felahughes
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:18 pm

OK- so either way I'm going to have to dismantle the gearbox- or can I at least inspect the bearings without pulling everything apart?

Actually I remember I've got this photo. It all looks OK on the countershaft at least. Is there another race on the inside?

Image
Last edited by felahughes on Tue May 17, 2016 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

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satufiat
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:31 am
Your car is a: 1981 Spider 2000

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby satufiat » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:57 am

Yes, the countershaft front bearing has two sets of bearing races, you can see the outside race in the picture, but i don't know of a way to visually see the inside race until dissassembly.

I was surprised by the inside bearing race during dissassembly, because the inner bearing race(for the inside set) stays on the shaft and all of the balls fall out of the cage. And it is possible that one of the balls fell into the case.

The inner race comes off of the countershaft with a couple screwdrivers. I used wheel bearing grease to hold all the ball bearings in place to reassemble the inner race.

I now wish I took a picture of the inside race.

I wonder if this happened and the Front Bearing set was replaced earlier when all the balls could not be found?

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felahughes
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:17 am
Your car is a: Fiat 124 CS2 1979
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby felahughes » Mon May 02, 2016 6:35 am

Soooo I think I've solved it!

I took the countershaft bolt off and it was pretty easy to get the front race of the bearing out- and at the same time I could see in to the inner race. All balls present and correct. Hmm- let's try main bearing. A faff to try and take it apart as I didn't have a socket long enough to undo the nut. This made me stop and think. I opened up the detent ball housing and this time actually took the balls out. All 3 were there BUT they were identical to the one I found.

So it seems that the ball was a detent ball lost when I got the gearbox overhauled- I guess they gave up trying to find it and fish it out.

SP3 you are the winner! :)

Thanks guys for your help!
Fiat 124 Spider (for 30 years- now being resuscitated)
Lancia Delta Integrale Verde York No 405 of 500 (a bit sick too unfortunately)

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SP3
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:56 pm
Your car is a: 1966 Ducati 250 Monza
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA

Re: Help me find my bearings- literally!

Postby SP3 » Sun May 08, 2016 3:53 pm

Excellent news. Glad you got it sorted.


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