front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

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BEEK
Posts: 1830
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:45 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Spider
Location: clermont fl

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby BEEK » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:12 pm

The front end failures on these cars is purely lack of proper maintenance or abuse. Cross member failures are usually due to loose bolts, this is in the mounting and the lower control arm areas. I have raced fiats on asphalt circle tracks with bankings of 30 deg. You are looking at an excess of 3g's loading with corner loading of over 10,000 lbs momentarily. absolutely no failures on stock components. the only change i made is i used lower ball joints all around. Big brakes will not generate too much torque on these front ends. Hitting potholes at 70 will destroy one though.
Automotive Service Technology Instructor (34 year Fiat mechanic)
75 spider
, 6 Lancia Scorpions, 2018 Abarth Spider, 500X wifes, 500L 3 82 Zagatos. 82 spider 34k original miles, 83 pininfarina, 8 fiat spider parts cars
son has 78 spider

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KevAndAndi
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
Location: Chatham, NJ

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby KevAndAndi » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:08 pm

BEEK wrote:The front end failures on these cars is purely lack of proper maintenance or abuse. Cross member failures are usually due to loose bolts, this is in the mounting and the lower control arm areas. I have raced fiats on asphalt circle tracks with bankings of 30 deg. You are looking at an excess of 3g's loading with corner loading of over 10,000 lbs momentarily. absolutely no failures on stock components. the only change i made is i used lower ball joints all around. Big brakes will not generate too much torque on these front ends. Hitting potholes at 70 will destroy one though.


I've done a little searching and I can't find specifics about cross member maintenance. For a newbie, can someone explain what's involved? How many bolts, and what are the torque specs?

Seeing the cracked Spider cross member on the TV show "FantomWorks" was a real wake-up call.
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000

DieselSpider
Posts: 2130
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider with Isuzu Turbo Diesel

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby DieselSpider » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:33 pm

KevAndAndi wrote:
BEEK wrote:The front end failures on these cars is purely lack of proper maintenance or abuse. Cross member failures are usually due to loose bolts, this is in the mounting and the lower control arm areas. I have raced fiats on asphalt circle tracks with bankings of 30 deg. You are looking at an excess of 3g's loading with corner loading of over 10,000 lbs momentarily. absolutely no failures on stock components. the only change i made is i used lower ball joints all around. Big brakes will not generate too much torque on these front ends. Hitting potholes at 70 will destroy one though.


I've done a little searching and I can't find specifics about cross member maintenance. For a newbie, can someone explain what's involved? How many bolts, and what are the torque specs?

Seeing the cracked Spider cross member on the TV show "FantomWorks" was a real wake-up call.


See:
http://www.mirafiori.com/124susp/

http://www.mirafiori.com/~courtney/124/resto/framerail.html

I printed out Eli's Primer on the suspension and brought it to the front end shop when they aligned mine so that they would have quick and easy access to the specs in case they had trouble locating them.

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KevAndAndi
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:14 pm
Your car is a: 1981 Fiat Spider 2000
Location: Chatham, NJ

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby KevAndAndi » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:10 am

DieselSpider wrote:
KevAndAndi wrote:
BEEK wrote:The front end failures on these cars is purely lack of proper maintenance or abuse. Cross member failures are usually due to loose bolts, this is in the mounting and the lower control arm areas. I have raced fiats on asphalt circle tracks with bankings of 30 deg. You are looking at an excess of 3g's loading with corner loading of over 10,000 lbs momentarily. absolutely no failures on stock components. the only change i made is i used lower ball joints all around. Big brakes will not generate too much torque on these front ends. Hitting potholes at 70 will destroy one though.


I've done a little searching and I can't find specifics about cross member maintenance. For a newbie, can someone explain what's involved? How many bolts, and what are the torque specs?

Seeing the cracked Spider cross member on the TV show "FantomWorks" was a real wake-up call.


See:
http://www.mirafiori.com/124susp/

http://www.mirafiori.com/~courtney/124/resto/framerail.html

I printed out Eli's Primer on the suspension and brought it to the front end shop when they aligned mine so that they would have quick and easy access to the specs in case they had trouble locating them.


Awesome, thanks.
Kevin
1981 Spider 2000

spiderrey
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
Location: San Dimas, Ca

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby spiderrey » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:15 pm

Why lower balljoints, beek.

BEEK
Posts: 1830
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:45 pm
Your car is a: 1975 Spider
Location: clermont fl

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby BEEK » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:34 pm

2 reasons, this is for racing only. First the lower ball joint is stronger than the upper. Second, it is taller, thus giving me more camber gain. it makes the suspension think the spindles are taller.
Automotive Service Technology Instructor (34 year Fiat mechanic)
75 spider
, 6 Lancia Scorpions, 2018 Abarth Spider, 500X wifes, 500L 3 82 Zagatos. 82 spider 34k original miles, 83 pininfarina, 8 fiat spider parts cars
son has 78 spider

spiderrey
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:08 pm
Your car is a: 70 124 spider-74x19-03 ranger edge
Location: San Dimas, Ca

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby spiderrey » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:42 am

Thanx

carlospena96
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:43 pm
Your car is a: 1981 Fiat 124 spider

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby carlospena96 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:36 pm

This modification need brakets to adapt the fiat 500's calipers to the 124 spider?

djape1977
Posts: 985
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:08 pm
Your car is a: 1970 fiat 124bc
Location: Belgrade, Serbia, eastern Europe

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby djape1977 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:38 pm

as far as know, 85 spider and volumex used fiat 132 stub axles and 250mm discs.
132 stubs are thicker, use bigger bearings and lower the car by an inch up front

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Sparky
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:53 am
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby Sparky » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:25 pm



Does anyone have an archived copy of that page? It appears to be a dead link now.
-= 1978 Fiat Spider =-

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Sparky
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:53 am
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby Sparky » Sun May 07, 2017 1:14 pm

Just to follow up on this, it seems both the Vick's kit and Allison's kit are using the same calipers and rotors? Why the discrepancy in which wheels will fit? Anyone have some long term wear & performance experience with either kit?

Also curious about brake dust? I've had a couple new cars with oem ceramic pads that were awesome and a Mini with oem pads that made a ridiculous mess.
-= 1978 Fiat Spider =-

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So Cal Mark
Posts: 13839
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:45 pm
Your car is a: Fiat
Location: upland, ca.

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby So Cal Mark » Sun May 07, 2017 8:28 pm

we have many customers with these kits and I believe it's been about 3 years now. None have had to replace pads yet
Mark Allison
allisonsautomotive.com Fiat and Alfa Romeo parts and service. Performance parts our specialty!
Headers, ignitions, wheels, cams, flywheels
starsmark@hotmail.com 909-981-3566

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Sparky
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:53 am
Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby Sparky » Sun May 07, 2017 8:42 pm

Brake pads are relatively cheap and easy to replace, I'm more curious about how the ones included in your kit perform and how much dust they create. Ideally it'd be great if the kits came with ceramic pads or if there was a discount for no pads...
-= 1978 Fiat Spider =-

djape1977
Posts: 985
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:08 pm
Your car is a: 1970 fiat 124bc
Location: Belgrade, Serbia, eastern Europe

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby djape1977 » Thu May 11, 2017 6:24 pm

1985 fiat 124 spider and spider volumex did have bigger brakes, but they also used stub axles from fiat 132/argenta, thicker ones with bigger diameter inner bearings

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So Cal Mark
Posts: 13839
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:45 pm
Your car is a: Fiat
Location: upland, ca.

Re: front brakes modification upgrade..... with fiat 500 parts

Postby So Cal Mark » Thu May 11, 2017 10:19 pm

we include either ceramic or EBC Green pads with our kits.
Mark Allison
allisonsautomotive.com Fiat and Alfa Romeo parts and service. Performance parts our specialty!
Headers, ignitions, wheels, cams, flywheels
starsmark@hotmail.com 909-981-3566


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