Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

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Nut124
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:39 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby Nut124 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:28 pm

Hello Forum,

Has anyone got any advice or tips for fitting 44IDFs under the hood on a 2L?

I'm planning on building a new 2l this winter. Have the 44IDFs and the Pierce (?) manifold.

Planning on using the 9.8:1 8mm domed cast pistons.

Cam suggestions? Hot street use.

Nut124

sptcoupe
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:25 pm
Your car is a: 1972 124 Sport Coupe

Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby sptcoupe » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:31 pm

Is the car originally a 2.0L car? In other words, does it have a 2.0L cross member?

Those 8mm domes will produce much more than a 9:8:1 CR, in spite of what the supplier sayys. This is especially true after a rebuild and the head and deck are cleaned up and straightened. Be careful or you'll end up with detonation, even with 93 octane gas.

40/80 cams are a good street cams. 42/82 are hotter in the sense that you'll have a higher top to the rpm range, and give up a little mid-range torque. With the 44 IDFs I would not go less than the 40/80 duration, or you're giving up a lot of the gains going with dual IDFs.

A good header/exhaust will help the IDFs work best, as well.

131lover
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:14 pm
Your car is a: 131 supermirafiori

Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby 131lover » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:12 pm

As sptcoupe says, the 8mm domed pistons will give you ~10,75-1 in comp in a 2l engine with 53cc combustion room..

Are you building a regular streetcar or fast roadcar...

Cheers

Nut124
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:39 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby Nut124 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:03 pm

Fellows, thanks for the replies, much appreciated!

My car is a -78 1800 car. Title says -74?? I assume it has no accommodation for the taller 2L.

I was planning on replacing the hood with a 2L Hood. Looked under my 1800. There is little or no space between the oil pan and the cross member. Is the 2L cross member different?

I'm still debating whether to build an 1800 or a 2L. I have cores for both available.

Does anyone have a 1/4 mile time slip? Mine does 16.1s @85mph. And an indicated 120mph top at an air strip, as is, but I feel like the power tapers off too early. It has 2x40DCNFs and 4mm dome pistons, 40-80cams from Bayless. Built it back in -99.

Been working on the 44IDF/manifold. Not a bolt on job! I feel like a black smith.

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Nut124

Nut124
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:39 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby Nut124 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 pm

131lover wrote:As sptcoupe says, the 8mm domed pistons will give you ~10,75-1 in comp in a 2l engine with 53cc combustion room..

Are you building a regular streetcar or fast roadcar...

Cheers


Hello131 Lover, definetely not a regular street car. My car has been to both a road course and a 1/4 mile strip with some regularity. I may be a bit crazy, but when I drive the car, I push her hard, try to keep her under 7800. The intake sound of dual webers is something else.

At the road course, the oil pan/breather and the rear axle are the problems - cannot hold the oil in. And the brakes only last 2 laps. This time I want to build a better oil pan - looking for suggestions.

If I go with the 1800, I would only gain the 1/2 point of compression, the bigger 44s and any cam improvement. I do like the 1800 on principle.

Nut124

Nut124
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:39 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider 1800

Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby Nut124 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:21 pm

After some consideration, I decided to go with the 1800 for my Stage II build. Concern about lack of room above the carbs inlets with the 2L, and the high-revving nature of the 1800 were a factor. My donor engine will be arriving next week I hope.

Cams: Vick sells affordable reground cams. Does anyone know how much smaller the base radius is with these cams vs stock? In other words, how much more shim is required?

Oil Pan: On the track, my current stock pan cannot hold the oil in. It comes up the breather hole and soils the carbs.

Does anyone have a design or other solution for this? Is there perhaps an improved breather design? I never saw any signs of low oil pressure on the track.

Cheers,

Nut124

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AndyVAS
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 9:42 am
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat 124 Spider
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Re: Fitting 44IDFs under the hood?

Postby AndyVAS » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:58 am

The oil slosh issue isn't what you think. It is massive crank pressure causing the issue. Lots of blow-by. There is a long tube that runs from the oil vapor separator down and into the oil in the pan. The pressure is forcing oil up that tube into the separator and overwhelming it. Pull the oil pan and pull the tube. Drill through the tube with a 1/4" bit about 4 times between the top and the mounting bracket. Try to have your holes so they face the front and back of the motor not at the rotating crankshaft. This will stop the pressure from forcing oil up. You will still have the massive crank pressure issue and will until you replace your rings.
Andy Phillips
Vick Auto - Technician, Performance Engine Builder & PFI Developer (with ITBs)
http://www.vickauto.com
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