Learning to be my own mechanic

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fiatluck
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:58 pm
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Spider 2000 FI

Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby fiatluck » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:48 pm

Hi all. The power brake servo on my 80 Spider 2000 Fuelie developed a vacuum leak. I finally got the damn thing out and found a replacement part from Vicks, but unfortunately I didn't pay enough attention while struggling to remove that top right nut on the passenger side of the firewall. Instead of a flat washer this nut holds a square plate that anchors a spring which fell down when I loosened the nut. Does anyone know what moving part it attaches to? It's not any of the pedal return springs.

ORFORD2004
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Your car is a: 1983 PININFARINA
Location: Sherbrooke, Qc, Canada

Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby ORFORD2004 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:58 pm

Any picture? I just replace my MC and it's 4 washers and lock on the stud inside of the car.

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RRoller123
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Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
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Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby RRoller123 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:23 pm

I am smack dab in the middle of doing this myself, it is the throttle return spring that you are referring to.

How on God's Green Earth did you get that UR nut off? I am trying to get to it today. The CatCon counter box is in the way, and I have actually been considering removing the clutch and brake pedals. Getting the spring plate back on looks like it can't be done, not sure why they didn't have the end of the spring just mount to a spot on the firewall. Another awful design quirk.

And the vacuum booster should be attached to studs on the firewall facing into the engine compartment, duh, not by hidden and inaccessible nuts up behind the pedals. This thing is starting to get to me. Losing patience for the endless difficulties working on it.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle

fiatluck
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:58 pm
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Spider 2000 FI

Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby fiatluck » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:23 pm

To get to that nut with an open-end wrench, I removed the gas pedal supports at both ends of the pedal rod. That way I could pull the rod away from the firewall a little to get my hand behind it with a wrench. And yeah, the spring is the throttle return spring. Thanks.

If you haven't pulled the brake booster yet I recommend disconnecting the speedometer cable and clutch cable from the transmission then drape them out of the way. Also pull the return fuel hose off the metal fuel line near the fender well so the booster can nudge the line out of the way. Also pull the fuel hose off the cold start valve and remove the bolt that holds the fuel manifold to the intake manifold. This lets the booster push the fuel manifold down and out of the way when you pull it, without having to disconnect the hoses from the injectors. Finally, as you pull the booster up rotate it about 90 degrees so that the short side of the mounting plate is facing up. That'll help it clear the fuel manifold.

fiatluck
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:58 pm
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Spider 2000 FI

Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby fiatluck » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:49 pm

The oxygen sensor mileage counter box should be moved out of the way to get easier access to the throttle spring plate nut. It is mounted on two studs. Remove the nut from the lower (rearmost) stud and just loosen the other one. Then pull the box off the lower stud and swing it forward to access behind it.

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RRoller123
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Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby RRoller123 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:56 am

fiatluck wrote:To get to that nut with an open-end wrench, I removed the gas pedal supports at both ends of the pedal rod. That way I could pull the rod away from the firewall a little to get my hand behind it with a wrench. And yeah, the spring is the throttle return spring. Thanks.

If you haven't pulled the brake booster yet I recommend disconnecting the speedometer cable and clutch cable from the transmission then drape them out of the way. Also pull the return fuel hose off the metal fuel line near the fender well so the booster can nudge the line out of the way. Also pull the fuel hose off the cold start valve and remove the bolt that holds the fuel manifold to the intake manifold. This lets the booster push the fuel manifold down and out of the way when you pull it, without having to disconnect the hoses from the injectors. Finally, as you pull the booster up rotate it about 90 degrees so that the short side of the mounting plate is facing up. That'll help it clear the fuel manifold.


Yes, I removed both of the gas pedal brackets as well, but only to manipulate the pedal out of the way so that my hand could get back up in there. UL, LL, LR nuts, no problem. UR, problem. You quite literally cannot even SEE it. I removed the throttle cable, but I didn't have to remove the Clutch Cable or Speedo Cable. Getting the pin back in the brake arm was a chore, but one small trick was to put a small mark on the edge of the arm directly across from the hole, then use a small clamp placed on the brake arm, just to hold the Vacuum Fork up in proper alignment position while you move the vacuum push rod around and try to get it to line up. Otherwise it just keeps falling down out of alignment, and you can't see where the hole in brake arm is, so it is a waste of time. I struggled with it for maybe an hour before coming up with this little kluge solution. Mine needed a slight push in on the Vac Booster arm to get the pin to go through the hole. The natural rest spot of the arm is ever so slightly too far out. So instead of needing 4 hands, the mark and clamp only made it necessary to have 3.

Getting the throttle spring back on is near impossible, since the the spring ends are closed too tightly, and there is no way you can twist it and stretch it to maybe twice its length and make a 90 degree bend in order to hook the end through the small hole. I opened it up slightly with a pair of pliers.

I am now working on replacing the brake lines.

So in the final analysis, in order to remove and replace the Vacuum Booster and Master Cylinder, I had to remove, or otherwise move, loosen, etc:

(Obviously) Remove brake fluid reservoir and lines.
Remove Driver's Seat. (mounds of shop blankets/drop cloths added to floor to keep back from breaking)
Remove Steering Wheel. (BE CAREFUL not to accidentally pull yourself back up by the turn signal/wiper arms! They are built like turntable tone arms and will snap like a piece of uncooked spaghetti. I reached up to the top of the windshield frame to pull myself back up).
Remove Throttle Pedal Spring.
Remove and reposition Throttle Pedal.
Remove rearward nut on Cat Con/O2(?) whatever that counter box is, and rotate it inward and upwards out of the way.
Loosen Charcoal Cannister and move forward, out of the way.
Remove Supply and Return Fuel Lines.
Remove Vacuum Lines.
Remove Throttle Cable.
Remove Fuel Rail (Complete with injectors avoid damage).
Remove Oil Dipstick (mine is swiveled for use with CompuTronics).

Tip: The sheet steel frame that the entire pedal assembly mounts to, is held to the firewall by the same 4 studs and nuts that the Vacuum Booster plate mounts to. It may look like they are the same 4 studs that the Vacuum Booster uses, but ahah and alas No... There is an intermediary plate that the 4 Vac Booster studs (~3"x3" pattern) mount to, with that intermediary plate going through the firewall on an ~ 3"x6" pattern.

Well, as soon as you pull those 4 screws, the sheet metal bracket springs outwards slightly, and the studs from the new booster (mounted to the aforementioned ~3x6 pattern plate) won't go back through the firewall and through the sheet steel frame. 2 will go through, 2 will not. The solution is to get a properly sized smaller clamp and set it across the frame, inside the car, up behind the pedals, and slightly pull the mounting frame back inwards. Then the remaining 2 studs will slip right through, and you can start on the task of getting the nuts back on. The UR nut requires that a totally unnecessary little piece of formed steel be installed over the stud, its entire reason for existence just being to provide a tiny hole to anchor the throttle return spring. Ridiculous. Obviously a small hook formed as part of the firewall would have made far more sense and less expense.

And let's not even talk about why the studs don't go in reverse, so that removing the Vacuum Booster could be done easily enough from INSIDE the engine compartment, instead of mounting it inside the passenger compartment, up behind the pedals, where one can't even reach to, much less manipulate small parts and springs. That would make too much sense.

This was the job that has seriously got me thinking that it is time to say goodbye to this car, I am that irritated. I guess the only real comfort I take is when nonsense like this is finally DONE, and I go to a cruise night. People come by and look in the engine compartment, let out a small whistle, shake their heads and ask "How the hell do you work on that thing? You can't even put your hands in there anywhere?" I just give them a knowing nod. They walk away muttering and I feel somewhat vindicated.

And as always, thanks to Ramzi, who took time off on his weekend to answer my emails and provide helpful advice. You guys are truly the best, simply and honestly said.
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle

fiatluck
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:58 pm
Your car is a: 1980 Fiat Spider 2000 FI

Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby fiatluck » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:04 pm

You removed the driver's seat and steering wheel?? OMG! And then the steering wheel support frame slid out of position on the firewall when you pulled the booster? Damn, you had a rough go of it. I hope you didn't lose the donut gasket that slides over the servo's boot and seals the opening on the engine side of the firewall. Without that you run the risk of engine gasses getting into the cabin.

I had a problem with the brake pedal pin as well, but I solved it by repurposing an allen wrench a little smaller than the hole as a pilot shaft. You work it into position from the clutch side of the fork and then push it out from the other side with the pin itself. The pilot keeps the pedal and fork aligned just enough to wiggle the pin into place.

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RRoller123
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Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
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Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby RRoller123 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Pulling the seat and steering wheel was the best thing I did to make the job easier! Lay out a bunch of clothe mats along the floor and it was like stretching out on a feather bed working on my back behind the pedals! :D

Good idea about that pilot wrench idea! I tried that with a small screwdriver but I didn't have enough hands! (Secret: My clamp on the brake bar was a classic wooden mousetrap)
'80 FI Spider 2000
'74 and '79 X1/9 (past)
'75 BMW R75/6
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/STD BED
2002 Edgewater 175CC 80HP 4-Stroke Yamaha
2003 Jaguar XK8
2003 Jaguar XKR
2021 Jayco 22RB
2019 Bianchi Torino Bicycle

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phaetn
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Your car is a: 1974 Fiat Spider 1800
Location: Ottawa, ON Canada

Re: Learning to be my own mechanic

Postby phaetn » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:20 pm

Just did this today. Easier than I thought.

I did pull the seat and steering wheel, however. Made access much easier, especially since my Clubman rally seats have a side to them that makes even getting in and out at the best of times a challenge. :)

I had already pulled the head the other day due to a head gasket leak (sent it to a machinist to deck it and who will also cut for new valves). This made for much easier access since there was no intake manifold or carb assembly in the way. My '74 has a lot of breathing space in there anyway -- easy to see the ground since it doesn't have all that later anti-pollution plumbing.

New brake booster fit right in. Biggest challenges:
1) For the longest while I didn't realize the pin for the brake pedal fits through a hole in the pedal shaft; I kept trying to get pin in front of the pedal and couldn't figure why it wouldn't fit. That was a "doh!" moment when I realized what I was doing wrong.
2) Had to rethread the nipple from the hard line to the master cylinder as it had started to strip. m.c. is fine. (also cleaned it all as it had corrossion from brake fluid leaking over the winter).
3) Spring to pin on brake. I took a break and moved on to other things. Went back with needle-nose vice grips and it was easy-peasy.

Since the driver's seat is out I will also take out the passenger one and POR-15 both front floor pans as they are getting holy. :)

Cheers,
phaetn
1974 CS1
32/36 DFEV; CompuTronix ign.
9.8:1 c/r; 40/80 intake cam w/ Isky springs
Vicks' SS header & adj. cam pulleys
A/R's progressive coils, Koni Yellow dampers
205/50-15s on CD-66 style rims
Momo wheel, Corbeau seats w/ 5 pt belt
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