OPUS10583

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maytag
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OPUS10583

Postby maytag » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:53 pm

Hi Mark,

Here's what I want: Transparency of the shills.

I don't resent anyone making a living supplying my addiction. ...This is the USA, after all.

I resent the shills for the scammers.

...Those who always have a link to someone who has either ripped me off, plain and simple, or presume to transcend decency because "where the hell are you going to go?"

I've made my contribution: I value this forum without reservation.

A good number of people here, yourself exemplary, have helped me beyond my abilities to properly compensate them for my gratitude. I can not stress that enough: People here have helped me immeasurably, and there's only more to come.

But, every day here; someone who has tried or succeeded to steal from me, and there are more than two, gets praised by some particularly usual suspects.

In exchange for my support, I would prefer that the predators live in the daylight.

Thanks,
Mark


I copied-n-pasted, then started a new thread so we didn't have to keep this on the donations thread.

Opus, for a guy calling for "transparency", you're sure being obfuscatory.
Would it be possible for you to drop the diatribe long enough to tell us in plain terms what you want?
when you say "In exchange for my support, I would prefer that the predators live in the daylight.", what do you think this would look like?

It seems that you feel you've been ripped-off by somebody (or more than one) on this site. And it seems that you feel like they are somehow hiding a supposed "vendor" status.
ok. let's stipulate that.

now what do you want to do about it? Transparent HOW?

WHAT DO YOU WANT?

And if all you want to do is continue to whine in ambiguity, then tell us so, so we can quit being interested.
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!

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courtenay
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby courtenay » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:37 am

You're bang on with your comments, and I agree with the sentiments, Maytag. However, IMHO the best way to deal with this might be to simply ignore him rather than getting into a pissing contest. Obviously you and I, and probably others, are not able to figure out what the hell he's on about, and frankly, I'm not sure I care. If he's got an ax to grind with someone else on the forum, he should deal with it and include the rest of us out. If someone had truly stolen something from him, and he can prove it, then he should do so rather than spouting vague, meaningless insinuations.
'nuff said from this corner...
Bruce Shearer
'80 Spider Fi
'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago

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wikkid
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby wikkid » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:44 am

Yep. FS.com version of "Stop feeding the troll."
1984 Pininfarina Azzurra

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opus10583
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby opus10583 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:10 am

If anyone's looking for a good old internet dust up you've got the wrong guy,

I've said my bit, plainly and in context, and as a reply to Mark; if I'm not understood I don't have the time to tutor.

Thanks,
Mark
...Yes; I know what it means: Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.

DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH

Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson

leftfield6

Re: OPUS10583

Postby leftfield6 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:04 am

Mark, I don't think anyone is looking for a dust-up here. Just seeking clarification. We are seeking to understand. What you intended to communicate as "plainly and in context" in the message that Maytag quoted above, did not come off as plain or in context at all.

BTW, I'm not looking for a tutor. I have been in the business of writing clearly, and for comprehension, for over 25 years. It's what I do for a living, and, according to my employers, I am damn good at it.

You make a number of veiled references to predators, scammers, and various versions of boogeymen, and you obviously feel that some change needs to be made to the website to accommodate your views.

So what the heck are you talking about? If there are evil-doers lurking here, do us all a favor and let us know.

dmwhiteoak
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby dmwhiteoak » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:38 am

Here's what I'm thinking. Mark has been wronged by some people on the forum, thats plain enough. Everyone on here on a regular basis I pretty much know their personality and maytag and I are alike as we like to stir the pot. But not today. This is an internet site , we all deal with people hundreds or thousands of miles away and we have to use our best judgement on who we conduct buisiness with. There are some that I would not deal with and others I would enjoy doing so. I don't see how they could be identified without hurting someone totally innosent . Mark, sorry you feel as you have been ripped off just next time read a few post and do some research on who you are going to deal with. Getting ripped off is part of life but there are things we can do to minimize it. Just my 2 cents worth.
Dennis Modisette

1972 124 Spider
2003 Chevrolet Z71
2007 GMC Yucon

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maytag
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby maytag » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:26 am

It sounds like we are all thinking the same way, for the most part.
I guess my comments were designed (in addition to stirring the pot :wink: ) to draw-out from Opus an idea for a solution to what most would agree is a difficult problem, that being: How do we do everything we can to make this site safe for people to do a small amount of business? both for the sellers and the buyers?

It sounds like Opus thinks some people are hiding and need to be identified as vendors. From a usage standpoint, I would agree with that. I think it is fair that if a person is advertising product and / or services that they charge for, then they could offer-up a little extra kick-in at the annual fundraiser.
But where do you draw the line? We have some fantastic vendors that post here, like Allison's, Autoricambi, Miller's mule, and probably others I don't know as well. Should they be considered in the same category as Gritracing, making small items that are a simple extension of what he has done on his own car, being offered to others? Or how about the michigan short-shifter? As far as I know, that's the only product offered by that individual. Or let's say even more down the food-chain, what about a guy like me and many others who occasionally pick up a parts-car and sell items that we don't need for ourselves. Should we be considered vendors?

So when Opus asks for "Vendor Transparency", which type of vendor are we talking about, and how should they identify themselves? I should think that most vendors would WANT to identify themselves, as a simple form of advertising / marketing. But I think that some feel a gentlemanly aversion to "tooting their horn" in this forum. So it may actually be a favor to some if we require some means of identifying the vendors. Let me pick on a couple for a minute: Socal Mark's posts all have "Allison's Automotive" in his signature. Mark occasionally releases new product and starts a thread about it where it is quite clear that he is the vendor, and this is his product. I don't think I've ever seen Mark hijack a thread to say that the only way to do something is to buy his product. I think this is appropriate behavior for a vendor. I've seen Jason Miller occasionally chime-in on a thread (usually to correct technical topics :wink: ) and then jump back out of the fray. His posts list "Miller's Mule" in the sig-line. I don't think I've EVER seen Jason pimp his own items for sale on the forum. Yet he is a valuable source of knowledge and aid that I think could benefit from identification on the forum as a vendor.

But ultimately, I don't understand Opus' desire to throw an unknown individual under the bus. When I felt I'd been wronged by someone on this forum, I railed against them in every thread I could, and called 'em out in plain view. Eventually, I took it too far. Several posters made comments that made me back up and realize I needed to cool my jets, so I removed my posts and offered my apologies to the forum. But then I created another thread where we could talk about the people who had been HELPFUL to members. I still think this is a valuable tool, if used and moderated correctly. For instance, if I wanted to purchase widget from whojamacallit, I could go look at that thread and see if others have had good experience with them. no, bad experience wouldn't be there. But I think if I saw 5 or 6 posters giving good reviews, I could assume there is a good risk I will get treated correctly.
Likewise; If there are NO REVIEWS, I should employ 'caveat emptor' and cover my butt for the possibility that the sale could go wrong.

I think that the pressure we can provide in the Fiat community to always treat others fairly is not insignificant. I've been garage-selling items for a couple of months. On two occasions I've been faced with a moral dilemma, and the pressure on the forum has caused me to address it in a way that none could say I hosed them. Once, a trans I sold "as-is" was determined to be UN-rebuildable once it was open. There was no way I could've known this. But the buyer also felt he'd been sold a paper-weight. so we split it, and I refunded half his money. More recently, an item I sold never arrived to the buyer. I refunded his money (including shipping) as well. I trust that IF it shows someday, he'll pay me for it, or send it back.

We should ALL practice a little "how would I want to be treated" introspection when we engage in buying or selling product here on the forum.



'
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!

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courtenay
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby courtenay » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:33 am

Very clear, and well put Maytag.
Bruce Shearer
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'10 Volvo XC70
'06 GMC 1 Ton PU
'72 Spider a long, long time ago

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Newell33
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby Newell33 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:53 pm

I think Opus would be good at writing bills for Congress.

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opus10583
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby opus10583 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:52 pm

I am done gentlemen...

Post proof you've donated $25 to this site and I'll send you a lock of my hair for a proper voodoo doll.

...thanks.

Mark
...Yes; I know what it means: Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.

DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH

Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson

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4uall
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby 4uall » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:39 pm

how much to make this go away?
Jay

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ITZEBTZE

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maytag
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby maytag » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:08 pm

opus10583 wrote:I am done gentlemen...
Post proof you've donated $25 to this site and I'll send you a lock of my hair for a proper voodoo doll.
...thanks.
Mark


Opus, I think you may have missed the point. you may be projecting whatever anger and frustration you're feeling onto me, or others.
I don't know.

All we're asking is to understand what you're really saying. Be productive with your complaining. tell us what you want. You don't need to name names, if that's what you think is holding you back. But notice in my post where I suggested that you might be on to something good for the site and its' vendors.

But to go on your rant, never coming-out from behind your ambiguity, and then taking your ball and going home because we asked you what you meant, would be childish.

TELL US WHAT YOU WANT. Maybe it is a great idea. Or maybe there are reasons it may not work. I don't know, because I don't know what the idea is yet.

"4uall";
I'm not sure why you want this to go away so quickly. Are you afraid we are going to ask vendors politely to declare themselves as such? Or are you finding offense in the question that I posed about it? What am I missing?
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!

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4uall
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby 4uall » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 am

by going away I meant what you are all saying. Let's just use the forum for the sharing of information and if there is a concern express it like an adult. otherwise just move on. I have seen some back and forth discussions/bitch fests before and they usually do not ever see resolution. just my opinion.
Jay

Fiona
1980 FI 2000 Spider
ITZEBTZE

https://goo.gl/photos/eNKaX7hrXhBu9fmp6

FINN (FN-2187)
2014 Jeep Wrangler Sport
MYTHERPY

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maytag
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Re: OPUS10583

Postby maytag » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:10 pm

4uall wrote:by going away I meant what you are all saying. Let's just use the forum for the sharing of information and if there is a concern express it like an adult. otherwise just move on. I have seen some back and forth discussions/bitch fests before and they usually do not ever see resolution. just my opinion.


aaah.... yes. I'm feelin' ya.

it seems this one was nothing but a flash in the pan, not even a fire. I'll start a new thread someday about how we, as a community, can add value to our vendor-members by identifying those who support the group, rather than them feeling like they need to be shy about it.
I think it's possible that SoCal Mark's highly visible involvement may make things seem a little awkward for some vendors, but my suspicion is that Mark would not be opposed to some other supporting, constructive vendors being just as visible.

I could be mistaken. But Mark has frequently pointed-out that his support of the forum is not compensated; he does it as a service to the community. (and before anyone says it: he SHOULD get a little advertisement in exchange)
I'm no Boy-Racer..... but if I can't take every on-ramp at TWICE the posted limit.... I'm a total failure!


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